Nitrogen

Discussion in 'Chemistry' started by Mind Over Matter, May 26, 2011.

  1. Mind Over Matter Registered Senior Member

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    There is no certification from supplier stating the nitrogen is food grade.
    Is their a way to verify if the nitrogen used in the production is food grade?
     
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  3. ULTRA Realistically Surreal Registered Senior Member

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    The production of what? nitrogen is not an ingredient in food.
     
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  5. Mind Over Matter Registered Senior Member

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    Production of juice in can. Nitrogen helps make a can firm.
     
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  7. Believe Happy medium Valued Senior Member

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    ? It provides an inert atmosphere to help prevent oxidation, not what you said.

    Nitrogen is distilled from the air not made from chemicals so it is usually ultra pure already (i.e. food grade). The only impurities in it would be plain old air anyway so it wouldn't matter much.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  8. ULTRA Realistically Surreal Registered Senior Member

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    The Nitrogen does not produce juice. It does not produce anything on its own. What it can do though is replace the air in a can or packet. By doing this, microorganisms cannot grow and divide, making the product last much longer. This use is referred to as an "artificial atmosphere", but the nitrogen itself does not produce anything on its own.
     
  9. Believe Happy medium Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe a little, it's mostly for oxidation though. Many bacteria do not require oxygen to live.
     
  10. Mind Over Matter Registered Senior Member

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    I didn't say it produces juice. The product is juice in can. Some ingredients includes coconut water, sugar, sodium metabisulphite, carboxy methyl cellulose. etc. Since the "can" is fragile and easily dented, we uses nitrogen to make it firm.
     
  11. ULTRA Realistically Surreal Registered Senior Member

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    Yes you did. Though evidently you did not mean to say this
     
  12. ULTRA Realistically Surreal Registered Senior Member

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    Most common bacteria require oxygen to live including salmonella, rotavirus, Campylobacter Jejuni, and a host of other nasties. It is perfectly possible to use antioxidants mainly to prevent food discolouration, and ascorbic acid is one that is commonly used.
     
  13. Believe Happy medium Valued Senior Member

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    Then why not use the cheaper CO2 gas instead? It would also kill the bacteria, but it is more reactive (N2 only reacts with super reactive things like magnesium and lithium).
     
  14. Cifo Day destroys the night, Registered Senior Member

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    And perhaps the CO2 might break down into O2, but nitrogen would always remain nitrogen.

    In 1879, French chemist Antoine Lavoisier coined the term -azo- to mean "nitrogen", and its meaning is easy to remember because azo comes from the Greek a + zoe, which literally means "no life".
     
  15. siphra Registered Senior Member

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    344

    n(CO2) -> nC (s,g) + O2 doesn't happen ever by it self. The reaction in biological process is catalytic (Enzymes as the catalyst) and requires input of energy. (Sun light).

    So thats not a good reason to do it. You could have to worry about solubility issues though which is another thing.
     
  16. siphra Registered Senior Member

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    I am not saying that CO2 isn't more reactive than nitrogen, but in what way, and under what cases. CO2 is amazingly stable in nature. It is at the bottom of the biological energy chain.
     
  17. ULTRA Realistically Surreal Registered Senior Member

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    I can't think of any good reason why CO2 couldn't be used, though it is less abundant in the atmosphere and relatively more toxic to humans. A girl once died after inhaling CO2 from a large fizzy-drinks bottle. Niether N2 or CO2 provide much of a basis for life, so perhaps the reason is a commercial one.
     
  18. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    Here are two - solubility and acidification.

    Acidification, IIRC, encourages the breakdown of proteins, and changes taste (whether or not it breaks down proteins). Carbondioxide becomes acidic when it dissolves in water, which most foodstuffs contain, Nitrogen does not.

    Also, wine makers use nitrogen (or argon) because (as a result of solubility) if they use carbondioxide, their still wines become fizzy.
     
  19. Mind Over Matter Registered Senior Member

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    My question remain unanswered. Is their a way to verify if the nitrogen used in the production is food grade without asking the supplier?
     
  20. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Read post #4 again.
    The question HAS been answered. Unless you have some obscure interpretation of "food grade".
    It's an inert gas.
     
  21. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    No, no such thing. Might as well ask if the air in a local taco stand is food grade.
     
  22. ULTRA Realistically Surreal Registered Senior Member

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    Pure N2 is by definition, pure. That would exceed most food safety laws. But of course, an element can be pure and highly toxic eg. Bromine. You wouldn't want much of that in your club sandwich, I can tell you, pure or not..
     
  23. Mind Over Matter Registered Senior Member

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    Perhaps the Production team is using nitrogen to flush the air while packing the juice product. I made a google search and have learned that Nitrogen is widely used in food operations to extend shelf-life, minimize spoilage, preĀ¬vent bacteria growth, and eliminate moisture.
     

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