Newton's pebbles

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by nebel, Aug 19, 2016.

  1. nebel Valued Senior Member

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    Isaac compared his discoveries, formulations, as particularly finely shaped and polished pebbles he found on a beach. One alternate theory has it, that the solar system's orbit ratios , a modified Bode "law", are such a pebble too, and , beach pebbles are shaped by Waves. In case of the sun's planetary field, Resonances that are particular to the Sun, the galaxy.
     
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  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    And where might we find details of this alternate theory, and the evidence that it works?
     
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  5. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    At least you discuss your alternative scenario in the right section nebel, unlike some other well known trolls and cranks that avoid this.
     
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  7. nebel Valued Senior Member

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    You would find them in future ramblings here, if allowed. so: looking at the Bode sequence, it struck me that the pattern has a frequency component to it, with 7 doublings of the orbit radius increases as you go out, from Venus to Pluto. Doubling in length or area, would be one factor in a lowering of frequency, an octave, in a vibrating world. Trouble is, the halving of radii increments stops below venus and above Uranus at ~.3 AU and ~9.6AU respectively. Coming back to newton's beach now: Incoming and reflected waves have that kind of a pattern, the mighty breakers that roll in every 12 seconds, 50 meters apart end up as ripples lapping your toes, and that agitation leaves distinct patterns, and long sandbanks revealed in the retreating tide. The disrupted Bode sequence, the planetary field, can be viewed like that. The inner planet' orbit diameters are not less than ,3 AU or 300 light seconds different in size, , the outer planet's orbit diameter differences not more than 9.6 AU. or 32(four doublings)x300 ls= 9600ls. or 160 minutes. I like to work in diameters, easy for conversion from "c" to length, because the AU , Earth orbit has a 1000 light seconds diameter. With so much propagating at 'c', length and time become interchangeable, handy if waves are really involved. Pulsation, harmonics in entities like the Sun,galactic neighbourhood could be considered sources for these possible waves. I like to refute objections to these ideas, and paddoboy: thanks for promoting me from registered senior member to "well known troll" not drole.
     
  8. origin In a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect. Valued Senior Member

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    This looks like nothing more than numerology.
     
  9. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    What does "planetary field" mean?

    And what sort of "vibration" is allegedly associated with planetary orbits?
     
  10. nebel Valued Senior Member

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    of course, but with 1 AU in it's diameter pegged at 1000 light seconds it is easy pickings to give all orbit figures through "c" frequency values. In my time, the 5 minute solar pulse was in vogue, and that 300 seconds would correspond to the lower planetary spacing of .3 AU. Once you link numbers to actual features in the world it leaves the realm of pure numerology right? bsw, on planetary numerology, when you continue the halving of orbit difference in ward:-- Mars - Earth ~.6; Earth - Venus ~.3, between Venus and Mercury you would have an infinite number of planets, in ever closer ortbits to Mercury. example .7 Venus- 1/2 .3 = non-planet x at .55 AU( if it were not for the apparent lower limit of .3 AU orbit spacings). but:consider Mercury the endpoint of a geometric series of halving orbit spacing numbers.
     
  11. nebel Valued Senior Member

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    To invite the broadest comments, consider the planetary field the plane of any action that can happen there. gravity and electromagnetism.
    Many Planetary orbits are constrained by resonances, and that could be considerate a very long term , I merely point out that the system has the hallmarks of a wave generated system. Standing waves (perhaps only of the past) could result from the interference between the many sound sources in the sun, or my favoured a pattern resulting from the 5 minute pulsation of the Sun and a 160 minute frequency from the outside. The doubling of orbit spacings breaks down in the beginning, below Venus and also beyond Uranus, where the spacings are stable at .3 AU and 9.6 AU. Using illustrations again, consinder the planetary field a chladni plate, where some unspecified frequencies defined these regular orbits.
     
  12. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    A plane is a 2D surface in mathematics, not a field.

    Regarding my query about "vibration" your reply seems to be a random mixture of ideas about orbital resonances, waves, sound(!) in the sun and most peculiar of all, considering an orbital plane (i.e. something with no material structure whatever) as a chladni plate. Your reply seems to be word salad. I can discern no scientific ideas in it.
     
  13. origin In a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect. Valued Senior Member

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    Nope, it still looks like pure numerology to me.
     
  14. nebel Valued Senior Member

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    since these numbers within +-5% are cast in stone, or rather untouchable orbits, predicting a 9-position sequence, a link to :c:, what else would take it to be, in your view, impure numerology?
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2016
  15. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    He's not interested in impure numerology, he's interested in something other than numerology. Of course. As are we all. Do you have anything to offer?
     
  16. nebel Valued Senior Member

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    Correlation is not causation, but the distances in the diameter increases, expressed in wavelength of actions in "c" correspond to frequencies found in the Sun's pulsation, 5 minutes and 160 minutes ,which also happen to be the minimum and maximum orbit diameter differences in light minutes. (no two planets are closer than ~.3 AU or further than~ 9.6 AU.) or ~ 300 light seconds and ~9600 light seconds. not just numbers in two domains, but measurable in the real world. and whenever "c" is a factor it might be meaningful.
     
  17. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    So just numerology then.
     
  18. nebel Valued Senior Member

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  19. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Yes it is far-fetched. It's nonsensical. A chladni plate is a solid body that deforms elastically and thus can be made to vibrate. An orbital plane, whether it is empty or contains dust particles in free-fall, is no such thing. Engage brain, please and cut the woo.
     
  20. nebel Valued Senior Member

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    and I thought you would pick up on the nebulous comment: I am using a chladni plate as an analogy of action. natural forces suspend particles and gas in plate-, dish-like structures, witness saturn rings. If you were to impose frequencies on such conglomerates, [re-] organisation would happen, I believe some sorting machines are build on that principal, Since the solar system has at least 5 doublings in it's orbits , which would correspond to 5 octaves of vibrations, or the harmonics of 2, the possibility of some kind of possible past frequency's action stares you in the face. Those pulsations exist, and some match via "c" in wavelength and frequency.so: just putting it out there;- -for the last word on gravity and vibrations has not been heard yet.or?
     
  21. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    But how would you "impose a frequency" on these objects in free fall? With the chladni plate, the plate is an elastic material that resists being deflected, creating a restoring force capable of sustaining a vibration when part of the plate is displaced from its equilibrium position. What restoring force would these free fall objects experience to make them vibrate? Without that restoring force, you get no vibration.
     
  22. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    exchemist, you are so patient. I wonder how people can keep that quality at front here sometimes.
     
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  23. nebel Valued Senior Member

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    I am talking about the condition in the accreditation disk showing ring development as discovered by the large array, when particles, gas, gold even from the super novae blowing in,- had sufficient contact to transmit P- perhaps even S- waves from the central pulsating Star, all entities which had eigenschwingungen. Standing waves from multiple sources even? I am merely pointing out the the similarity between the octave length doubling and the wave patterns. Herschel the Musician, upon registering his discovery of Uranus, could have looked at his organ pipes, the size of his cymbals and said: wow, they decrease in size by a half, just like the orbits down from my baby, by George, Perhaps one day we will discover that gravity, gravitons have wave patterns too, if we are patient Dr. Toad or?
     

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