newbie to SF wonders if it's any better than space.com

hello. i'm bonzelite. i typically post on space.com. and i just got banned by TheShadow a few days ago. he began deleting my posts that were exactly on topic, were corroborated by another poster to be acceptable, then were removed. my posts did not agree with the mod's opinions. and the thread became very personal and insulting and dramatic. the mod then began doing the very things he declared to be against the rules. so it's the double-standard routine.

i find the railroading of dissenting opinions on a mainstream science forum to be disgusting and entirely childish. if this place is not any better, then somebody tell me now so i don't bother posting anymore. i will pre-ban myself, then.

have the most rigid and mainstream of the mods come on here and make themselves very known ahead of time, please. i'd like to see who they are.

 

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WELL.... i dont know what to tell you....

but i use foul launguage... and i insult people... and im still here.

i think, as far as i can tell.. the mods here are fair... as far as i can tell.

and those who have been banned, were banned for their obsessive need to insult others and or simply pisses everyone off by nature of their bad attitude and insulting manners....

ive been kicked off quite a few boards also... its their loss.

-MT

 

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ok. first reply sounds kind of ok.

so the mods typically do not edit or delete posts based upon personal ideological discomfort with what is being revealed on an international forum, then? and then ban the accused poster on a technicality that is really a manipulation of terms and conditions to suit the personal aims of the moderator?

 

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if they ever acted that way.... i wouldnt waste my time here.

as far as i can tell... they do as little as possible... liberals i suppose.

-MT

 

Hi, I'm Sciforums' chief moderator, probably. Can you explain exactly what circumstances led to you getting barred? If possible, post a link to the banning thread.

Thank you.

 

Oh no... Dave is allowing people to join this forum again

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Just kidding. Hello!

 

I have NEVER seen a mod do this. Ever. Hell, if that ban someone for a few days or weeks.. the thread is still up. Sometimes locked or cesspooled.. but the thread will always be there. So will your posts.

 

Yes the forum is pretty permissive, although we push it too far sometimes

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. You get to say poopie, peepee and even girl lumps.
Knock yourself out!

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imaplanck has been barred for 1 month.

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Haha you are good, you even had me going for a second with the lock icon.

 

Dont hang around here mate , a moderator just did a thread concerning me asking advice on banning me because I happen to posess opinions on Israel contrary to his . Locking posts , deleting as well as editing is the norm here .This forum is dying thanks to a financial drought it is dead thanks to this situation , sciforums creator porfory has walked away from his creation.

 

im probably the most vulgar member here, language-wise....and im still here.
i have even called moderators names and meant it....it is pretty relaxed here, as long as you are justified with what you are saying.

 

Welcome to sciforums. Ignore brian foley, he is our resident anti-Israeli troll.

The mods here are fair, and on other boards may even be considered underactive. They do a good job of keeping the place running well, and will not edit the posts of others to suit their agendas.

 

http://uplink.space.com/showflat.ph...&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=27&vc=1
(the original format on space.com has the italics that describe when TheShadow is talking, so the sentences below are not all from the same person)

Serak_the_Preparer
star
08/01/06 06:24 PM
ET Hypothesis: 'We are much more prepared to accept ET Aliens visiting us' [re: TheShadow][link to this post]

Attacks on character

Not at all, not even close. It isn’t necessarily dishonest to guide the discussion away from a point you don’t have a strong argument for.

And, as usual, we totally disagree. Labeling what I wrote as 'outlandish diversionary tactics' and 'downright prevarication' is an assault on my character, no matter what you choose to call it.

Just like your latest comment above.

Well, you did say I accused you of lying, when in fact I did not accuse you of lying. Falsely claiming that I did is a lie.

You accused me of prevarication. Falsely claiming I engaged in prevarication is a lie.

YOU came back with an entire post riddled with ad hominem comments directed at me, rather than rebutting the arguments themselves.

Wrong. You came to me first with the accusation of 'outlandish diversionary tactics' and 'downright prevarication.' After that, you moved on to accusations of lying.

Rather than address my arguments, you hid behind your 'strawman argument' defense.


The language of [extraterrestrial] flowers

As for the deceptive tactic, IMO that is what it was. I considered that to be diversionary because it attempted to make the entire evaluation process dependent upon learning the local language...

Well, once again, your opinion is wrong.

I have shown you in these posts why your 'real-time study' falls short if that's all it is. Why travel tens or hundreds of light-years out to a civilization just to make a few clinical observations, arrive at a rough guage of what 'level' of technology the extraterrestrials have reached, and call it a day?

Such an uninspired objective would not be worth the enormous investment of resources, time and effort required to mount an interstellar mission in the first place.

You are certainly welcome to hold your own opinions. In your opinion, apparently, I am wrong to have any other expectations of a mission assembled to study an extraterrestrial civilization. In my opinion, however, you are hopelessly short-sighted and wrong on this point. A much deeper study of the civilization would be attempted, one seeking a substantially greater understanding than what your minimalist objective calls for. That understanding would come - in part - through study of the extraterrestrials' language and recorded information.

This is not a diversion, or prevarication, or part of any underhanded agenda on my part. So there is no need for your continued derogatory remarks.

That totally ignores ALL the other valid aspects of observation.

Where have I argued that all other types of observation could or should be ignored? Personally, I would hope for a battery of tests and observations, using as wide a variety of methods as possible.


Why Mental & Serak will never agree:
(1) One only accepts that an 'evaluation of the basic level of technology' is all that is sought by an interstellar mission;
(2) One expects an ambitious agenda from an interstellar mission which seeks to understand the extraterrestrial culture itself

We don’t have to understand the exact mechanics of various vehicles to evaluate the basic level of technology.

Once again, we return to what is probably the core of our disagreement.

I am not arguing that the sole or principal goal of an interstellar mission would be 'to evaluate the basic level of technology.' You are arguing that.

What I am arguing for is a mission worthy of the multi-light-year journey. Understanding a culture or civilization does not begin and end with a general assessment of its level of technology.

Remember, in this discussion I have consistently used the phrase “basic level”.

That's fine, and it once again clearly delineates our inability to communicate effectively with one another or to have a meaningful discussion of ideas. Our exchanges instead descend to where they have always been in the past, with insults and responses to insults.

Well, let's put aside our obvious antipathy for one another just for a moment. And examine the topic we are allegedly discussing.


Attempting to see through the 'eyes' of extraterrestrial visitors

I introduced the example of our sending probes out to another solar system in order to draw comparisons with what we might expect from extraterrestrials visiting us. What might we expect to do in an alien system, where we have found an extraterrestrial civilization?

What might extraterrestrials try to do here, having gone to great trouble to cross what are literally astronomical distances to visit us?

If the extraterrestrial hypothesis is the correct explanation for UFOs, then it appears open contact is not the immediate goal of these extraterrestrials. Since UFO phenomena have been going on for a long period of time, what goals might extraterrestrials have which would take a long time to pursue?

One suggestion I am offering is that a thorough and long-term study of our culture and civilization might be the top priority. This might be rendered more difficult by the absence of a common history. Beings on Earth with whom we do have things in common have often posed great challenges to us. We might present a still greater challenge to extraterrestrial space-probes.


Fun & Games: Speculating about extraterrestrials visiting our system

Mental, there honestly does not seem much point to continued discussion between us. For whatever reason, you seem unable to either see or accept an argument for anything other than a quick once-over to assess our technology. We are coming at this topic from two totally unrelated points-of-view.

On my part, I find your version of an interstellar mission has little to recommend it. It seems to me to be an extremely unlikely scenario. And one which would completely fail to agree with many aspects of UFO phenomena - such as their longevity.

On your part, you appear to have rejected the extraterrestrial hypothesis out of hand. Therefore, you do not seem interested in speculating how the extraterrestrial hypothesis could be applied to UFO phenomena. In fact, you seem firmly committed to avoiding scenarios which allow for the possibility of extraterrestrial visitations. Such scenarios amount to 'strawman arguments,' in your view.

It does not seem you wish to play with this idea. But I, on the other hand, do. I am not stating that extraterrestrials are visiting Earth at this time, nor am I arguing that this is how we should interpret UFOs. But I am interested in the possibility, as it is one of the possibilities - even if it might be the least likely.

As for the question: Why have such a discussion at all?

Answer: Because it is fun. I come here to play. It is fine with me if you do not wish to play because you do not find it fun. I want to discuss this idea - the extraterrestrial hypothesis - with others who find it interesting and want to play with it. Where I'm concerned, it is perfectly all right that you are not someone who enjoys speculating about this idea. You don't wish to play the game. Or, at least, not with me.

Well, there are others here with whom you may have more enjoyable discussions. (And I am certainly not enjoying this one.) So why not engage them?

Post Extras:

bonzelite
solar system
08/01/06 06:34 PM
Re: Best-laid interstellar plans take time (lots of time) [re: Serak_the_Preparer][link to this post]

**Off topic, irrelevant comments deleted.**

there is only a constant state of becoming

Edited by TheShadow (08/01/06 08:33 PM)

Post Extras:

TheShadow
The Shadow Knows
08/01/06 08:34 PM
Re: ET Hypothesis: 'We are much more prepared to accept ET [re: Serak_the_Preparer][link to this post]

I wrote a detailed and accurate explanation of situation, but decided not to post it. Since you have already ignored and/or disagreed with established fact, there is no point. There is also no point in continuing this debate. I tried to discuss this seriously, but find you are just here to make a joke of it all. Fine.

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men, the Shadow knows.

Post Extras:

Serak_the_Preparer
star
08/01/06 08:43 PM
Re: ET Hypothesis: 'We are much more prepared to accept ET [re: TheShadow][link to this post]

You also deleted Bonzelite's 'off-topic irrelevant comments' which lent support to my own description of how you conducted yourself on this thread.

Did you also delete Kmarinas86's two posts? No, on second thought, please don't answer. I don't want to know.

That is fine, however, because you are right on one thing. There is no point to continuing a discussion between us. You believe I am 'here to make a joke of it all.' I doubt you can find a single person who has read this thread to agree with that interpretation. I have invested a lot of time and energy in clarifying my views and trying to elicit the views of others. If that seems frivolous to you, then - yet again - you are welcome to your own opinion.

Post Extras:

TheShadow
The Shadow Knows
08/01/06 10:28 PM
Re: ET Hypothesis: 'We are much more prepared to accept ET [re: Serak_the_Preparer][link to this post]

You have turned this discussion into a personal attack and derailed the thread. I have been very patient, but no longer. Thread derailment attempts will be deleted. Off topic personal comments will be deleted. Ad hominems will be deleted. This is not the place for such comments. Do not continue them here.

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men, the Shadow knows.

Post Extras:

bonzelite
solar system
08/01/06 10:40 PM
Re: ET Hypothesis: 'We are much more prepared to accept ET [re: TheShadow][link to this post]

**Off topic comments deleted.**

there is only a constant state of becoming

Edited by TheShadow (08/01/06 10:56 PM)

Post Extras:

bonzelite
solar system
08/01/06 11:01 PM
Re: ET Hypothesis: 'We are much more prepared to accept ET [re: bonzelite][link to this post]

**Off topic comments deleted.**

there is only a constant state of becoming

Edited by TheShadow (08/02/06 12:01 AM)

Post Extras:

 

for now, i'm going to complain about space.com because i am wanting to vent my rage, and this seems a good place to do it. allow me my anger and i will get over it. otherwise, it will remain repressed and i may "act out." repressed anger leads to dysfunctional traits. and the passive aggression of space.com's climate is stifling to progress.

 

Well if you are going to do that, I suggest you make other posts of meaning. Don't be like that guy Universe Today. I think he spent too much time complaining about his banning on other forums rather than becoming a useful member. Though it was funny... a mod from a board he was banned from came here and started trolling.

 

Man you people stole my idea.

 

man, what a load of horseshit.
you aren't a moderator redarmy, you liar.