Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Magical Realist, Aug 19, 2013.
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That might explain some of it.
From Wikipedia again...
Fact is stranger than fiction...
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The North Korean government condemns Western gay culture as a vice caused by the decadence of capitalist society, and denounces it as promoting consumerism, classism, and promiscuity. In North Korea, "violating the rules of collective socialist life" can be punished with up to two years' imprisonment. However, according to the North Korean government, "As a country that has embraced science and rationalism, the DPRK recognizes that many individuals are born with homosexuality as a genetic trait and treats them with due respect. Homosexuals in the DPRK have never been subject to repression, as in many capitalist regimes around the world."
Robert Mugabe, the president of Zimbabwe, has waged a violent campaign against LGBT people, arguing that before colonisation, Zimbabweans did not engage in homosexual acts. His first major public condemnation of homosexuality was in August 1995, during the Zimbabwe International Book Fair. He told an audience: "If you see people parading themselves as lesbians and gays, arrest them and hand them over to the police!" In September 1995, Zimbabwe's parliament introduced legislation banning homosexual acts. In 1997, a court found Canaan Banana, Mugabe's predecessor and the first President of Zimbabwe, guilty of 11 counts of sodomy and indecent assault.
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I think alot of homophobia is caused by socially and religiously-propagated stereotypes. Even before boys reach puberty they are trained to hate and make fun off sissy boys. This easily transfers over to homophobia, bullying, and lockerroom "fag" talk by the time they are teens. Then there's the tale of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Bible where "sodomites" are viewed as evil degenerates worthy of being incinerated by God. The denunciation by Paul in the New Testament of homosexuality and effeminacy as a sin worthy of eternal damnation. As well you have a whole subculture of people who talk of gay people like they are sick and mentally-ill individuals who are forcing their agenda of acceptance on society just so they can get to our children. The Catholic Church teaches that being gay is a "moral disorder" that obligates gay people to a life of chastity and service to God (we're all supposed to become priests and nuns?) There are also several well-funded hate groups out there who make a living out of pushing this sort of hateful propaganda about gay people.
So here we have a form of learned bigotry against a class of strangers based on little more than what other people have told you about them. These horrible people who are unmanly or unwomanly, promiscuous, against God, mentally ill, diseased, against nature, against family, selfish, predatory, and intent on turning children gay like them. And yet, even with all this homophobia you have an increasing amount of exposure of the public to REAL gay people and to the fact that they are just normal human beings like everyone else. So even as society has instilled homophobia thru ignorant stereotyping, it is also undoing this bigotry thru hollywood, news media, and social media by helping people understand what they have for so long feared and demonized. That's why gays are becoming more accepted nowadays. The rule of the day has become "live and let live" and the acceptance of diversity in your neighbors and aquaintances. It's a great time to be alive--to actually see centuries of prejudice and discrimination against gay people start reversing itself finally. The history of gay persecution is not pretty. See below for some examples..
http://www.splcenter.org/http:/%2Fwww.splcenter.org/get informed/publications/Dangerous Liaisons
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Keep on crying go feel sorry for yourself
Thank you for posting that in response to my question. I mean, I sort of know what causes it, but it seems that there has to be a deeper rooted cause behind the underlying motives of bigotry, etc. I believe it's learned behavior that starts at home, fruit doesn't fall far from the tree, etc.
With respect to your comment about the RCC...depending on who you talk to, the stance is changing to a more accepting 'view' of homosexuality.
But, then...you see this:
If civil marriage is governed by state law, why would the Church get involved?
Separation of church and state. Doesn't that mean anything anymore? :shrug:
Things that make you go hmmm...
I'm not seeing anything like respect for gay people by the Catholic Church. Not only do they oppose gay marriage and support political activism to ban it, but they also refuse to allow gay couples to adopt from adoption agencies they are in charge of. Now you can SAY you respect gay people. But unless you recognize their right to live their own lives and love their partners without moral judgement, respecting is the last thing you're doing. And in the end, here's what the Catholic Catechism teaches ALL its members about homosexuality. Note the homophobic stereotype of sexualizing gay love without acknowledging the validity of that love in itself. What exactly IS a "homosexual act"? Would kissing be a homosexual act? A massage by your gay lover? A valentine's day card sent to your latest gay date? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
"Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection."--http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm
If you interpret the word to mean "fear of gay sex" rather than "fear (or hatred) of gay people," it's easier to understand.
If you're like the vast majority of women, the mere idea of having sex forced on you by a man is horrifying. The definition of "forced" allows a little wiggle room, but if we're talking about a complete stranger who doesn't happen to look like your favorite movie star and also doesn't have that movie star's moves, I think we can agree that that is "forced" and I think we can also agree that you find the idea is horrifying.
Well guess what? We (heterosexual men) feel the same way. The idea of having sex forced on us by a man is horrifying. In our case the definition of "forced" is pretty straightforward, because even if he were a movie star we still wouldn't want it.
The mere image of two men having sex gives us cold chills, because we can't stop thinking about how awful it would be if we were the recipient. Every time we see a gay man, we can't help imagining what he's doing with his partner at night, and it gives us cold chills. I'd guess that's about the same way you feel when you see a heterosexual rape scene in a movie: you can't help feeling it personally, at least for a moment.
It takes considerable time and effort for the average heterosexual man to get over this, although we're all different and obviously some can do it faster. As I said, it took me ten years of living in Hollywood, getting accustomed to having a few (obviously) gay men around whenever I left home, before I became comfortable because I no longer imagined them having sex every time I saw them. But I still can't watch gay sex scenes, even as muted as they are in movies. Those icky scenes in "Deliverance"? I had to close my eyes.
This is homophobia. And it can be cured like many phobias: getting used to it. Or as an old girlfriend put it: "Familiarity breeds content."
Psychologists point out that both men and women fear unwanted sexual advances from a man. While neither men nor women are as freaked out by unwanted sexual advances from a woman.
If a woman is hit on by another woman, she might get angry and tell her where to get off, but she probably won't scream and call the police. Many straight actresses kiss other straight actresses in movies.
If a man is hit on by a woman, he'll probably start frantically looking for an empty conference room with a sofa. If he's trying hard to be faithful to his wife, he'll just thank her for the attention and walk around with a big smile the rest of the day.
And I can count on two fingers the number of times I've seen a straight man kiss another straight man in a movie. (And frankly I can't swear that the actors were indeed straight!)
Yes...seeing all gay men as predatory rapists who might anally violate heterosexual men at any time IS homophobic. It's a stereotype that has no basis in reality. Strangely enough, most anal rape of other males is committed by heterosexual prison inmates on other younger more effeminate inmates. So in the "end", whom should really be fearing whom?
What kind of crazy therapist would convert minors into being gay?
In my opinion any person crazy enough to "convert" someone needs therapy...
This is interesting, thanks for elaborating. I've been hit on by women, and it doesn't bother me a bit. Come to think of it, I don't believe women in general, have this type of 'mindset' at all, when it comes to 'being around' other gay women. Hmmm...interesting, indeed.
I never once worried that those guys would do that to me. It was the concept that scared me, not the people.
I had always worked in civil service up until a few years ago. In government employment, non-discrimination is taken very seriously. So in addition to having a much higher-than average proportion of ethnic minorities, women, older people and people with disabilities, there were also a lot of gay people on the staff--all the people who were discriminated against by other employers.
"Familiary breeds content," so before too long I regarded these guys as just co-workers (and even a couple of friends) rather than people of a different sexual preference. But it wasn't that easy for me to feel that way about strangers. I was disciplined enough to stifle my feelings and treat them kindly, but as I said, it took several years before I was as comfortable around gay people who were strangers as I am around those whom I already know. Even though I knew that those guys were not going to make a pass at me because they knew I wasn't gay. (Not everyone understands that gay men don't go around trying to "recruit" straight men.)
Yes. Rapists are as rare among gay men as they are among straight men. They won't rape women, each other, or us.
But it's not easy to integrate that reality with an irrational primal fear.
I'm of the generation that hates bias of any type and could not abide the existence of one in my own personality. I also lived in a place where I encountered gay people every day. And I also worked in a place where several of my coworkers--the people I collaborated with, played chess with and ate lunch with--were gay. And still it took me several years (not really ten but surely at least five) to banish that bias toward anonymous strangers.
How many years will it take for someone who doesn't have those advantages?
I would be delighted to hear from someone who says he got over it much faster, or better yet, never felt that way in the first place. Hope for the human race and all that... Somebody out there has got to be better than me!
I've never felt anything in particular about gay men (the same reaction as toward men who are attracted to high heel shoes and leather lingerie, or the anthropological curiosity toward clay-dressed hair and bone lip rings - whatever floats their boat) and since joining the world of the sexually active and seeing how things work I've always sort of assumed all women were at least functionally responsive to other women.
But I was never bullied, or even seriously threatened, by male violence during childhood. Maybe the connection of bullying and sex, with its implicit threat of humiliation established at early puberty, is behind some of this odd and reflexive fear? Also, I've never been sexually drawn to a male body, so do not have that sequence going that scares me at height (the conflict with the root level monkey brain that wants to jump through the air in the trees, with the overlay human brain in panic mode screaming at the monkey brain No! Don't! We'll all die!).
I also lack any reflexive fear of snakes, loud noises, bats, or spiders, but do have an innate flinch fear of height seen from a structure, depth and darkness of water, and the noises made by a large mass of bees or a large carnivore when disturbed. Fear of gay men strikes me as similar to those other fears I lack, and the only way I can understand it is to draw a parallel with the fears I do have, like the dark water - I've learned, through deliberate effort and conditioning, to enjoy swimming in deep, dark water without feeling fear, and that is how I comprehend people learning to enter a gay bar or the like without tensing up. But it is a bit strange - it alienates me from my own culture, this need for rational comprehension rather than having immediate empathy. And I sometimes miss jokes.
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