New evidence reveals women in Ancient Greece wore the veil

I'm so bored…procrastination..but the last point is interesting, the women veiled for those they respected and showed their face to those they didn’t…


New evidence reveals women in Ancient Greece wore the veil
http://www.ex.ac.uk/news/newsveil.shtml


Ancient Greece may have been the birthplace of democracy - but its women were second class citizens who for 1,100 years routinely wore a veil over their faces whenever they went out in public.
This is the conclusion of a new book by Dr Lloyd Llewellyn Jones, of the University of Exeter, who has traced the use of the veil in ancient Greece between 900BC and 200AD.
Said Dr Llewellyn Jones: 'We associate the veil with what are now Islamic countries. It seems that the veil certainly originated in these areas around 3,000BC, but by 900BC the veil was also to be found in ancient Greece.'
Dr Llewellyn Jones has discovered evidence of the veil on pottery and in Greek texts. Even though Greek artists usually showed women with faces uncovered - because it looked better that way - there are still plenty of images showing women veiled. Evidence can even be found in well known texts such as The Odyssey, where Penelope is referred to five times as wearing a veil. Yet the veil wasn't just a way of keeping women in their place.'
'Women used it to show status,' said Dr Llewellyn Jones. 'They would veil for men they respected and not for others. It was also an instrument of sexuality.'

 

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A veil sure but not in any sense used in the abject slavishness found in the Muslim world.

The beauties then would use it to hide their beauty as choice and vanity, as in the Lady Olivia in Shakespeare's "Twelfth Night". She recoils from the advances of Orsino and keeps her face from him as penalty.

 

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I thought olivia was just wearing a veil in the beginning because she was mourning the death of her brother

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And ancient greek chicks didn't wear veils, not on their heads anyway, they'd lie around naked on beds wearing thin transparent veil-like cloths half covering their nether regions ...at least thats what I gather from 16th century italian oil paintings

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and I like to imagine they are historically accurate, so shut up

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Dr. Lou:

Try this sometime, won't you?

As an aside- you were also wrong about the elephants.

Olivia's veil was emblematic of her mourning of course, but in Orsino's pursuit her motives changed as evidenced by Viola's having to beg for the lady to unravel her beauty to her. She only did so on account of falling in love with him (not knowing he was really a she)

Cleopatra wore a veil as did Penelope to oust her hundreds of suitors, we have images going back to Crete and Babylon even Egypt of beautiful women veiling their "charms".

And by veil one does not mean 'hijab'.

 

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ahhh... No, I wasn't, you absolute POS.

 

You:

Assuming POS is cutesey wootsey for piece of shit, you piece of shit, try eating some of mine now.

Yes, you were wrong. I said the oldest matriarchs outweigh the males. This is where you jumped in with some half-baked data on males outweighing the females by some "uhhm, like,you know a thousand pounds or somethin' like that. So you're, like, wrong Gendanken, yah? "... as rebuttal. Then you told me of their mating habits. Irrelevance.

So shove it and eat it...........dear.

 

You're a turd. Bull elephants outweigh female elephants and are the dominant sex so you're elephant 'grrrl power' spiel was a blatant load of shit.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/wildfacts/factfiles/177.shtml
Stick to shakespeare shit for brains.

 

Dr. Lu:

No need.

We'll do this again:
Your article: "African elephants have larger ears and tusks than Asian elephants. Females are smaller and have shorter tusks than males. The skin is grey, with a little covering of hair."

What I said: "The oldest matriarchs outweigh, outsize the males."

There is no secret or complexity in seeing that the average elephant female is smaller than the male, in height and weight. Duh.


However, I do not have the internet link for you since I read mostly so go the library and check you out "When Elephants Weep" by Masson and McCarthy and "Biological Exhuberance" by Baghemil. I can't recall exactly where in the first book, but in the second if you flip towards the back where the animals are classed statistically, in the mammal section, you'll see what I am talking about.

Reasercher upon reasercher has been out in the field and attested that if it was not for the S-penis than the matriarch would be taken for a majestic bull. Those in the 50-60 year range are gigantic - and it is because of the matriarch, specifially the oldest matriarchs that this speceis is known as a "keystone" member of the ecostyem.

Sevi?

 

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So although adult males are generally nearly twice the size of females, the matriarch will have a phenomenal growth spurt when she acquires her social position and suddenly outweigh the males?
*develops irritated twitch*

 

Why so fucking thick, huh?

Why?

::calming down::

Tell me, when is the last time you saw a fanstastically old matriarch next to a bull?

 

I'll make it simpler- not just a bachelor bull, any male either before or after he leaves his clan. When's the last time you saw her side by side with a male?

Again, we're not talking just any female here, Lou.

 

David attenborough's poo-cam documentary where a robotic turd with a camera in it spies on elephant life. A matriarch tries to stop a bull from beating up a baby and then he kicks her in the tits. He was so much larger it wasn't funny.

Fantastically old shmantastically old. They don't keep growing for the whole 80 years they exist. And they never get as large as bull elephants.
I'd say ask 'so and so' directing you to someone on the forums but there is no one better to ask then me. So ask me and be taught and then shut up.

 

Male elphants in clans are pre-pubescent. Yes I'm sure the matriarch is larger than little boy elephants. Adult males are far larger than any female elephants.

 

Dr. Lou:

From some middle classed snot nose who knows little more than the bilge they spin and respin on Discovery Channels?

I picture you sitting down with your fucking fingers in your mouth, gaping wide-eyed at those "kool" animals on the televison. Give 'em a little Attenborough, some Hannah and some Animal Cops and bingo we've got us an expert.

Tell me all about the Most Extreme, Lou.
Tell me about the Huns you saw on the History Channel.
No no- much better- flip me through your lessons with your remote control little boy.

You have MUCH to teach me, yes?

 

About sexual dimorphism in african elephants? obviously yes.

 

You have no business dabbling in obviouslies, especially in this thread.

You've done nothing here short of annoyance. Be like the Monkey, Lou. He knows his shit, you don't.

 

Monkey knows I know my shit and that you know nothing other than a few cliche terms from foreign languages and how to fuck dogs.

 

The internet sources seem to give a size range for males and females. According to this the largest females are not larger or as large as the males.

It seems unlikely to me that the matriarch would be larger than the males.

 

Lou:

Does he now?

...

Entonces ese placer de apachurrar toda la sangre de tu cuerpo y tomarla en una copa de oro como vino- where does that come from, a maxim?

And I've only fucked one dog- he keeps calling me.

Spuriousmonkey:

Sure enough, the size ranges are around 10 to 15 feet in height (godamn) and weighing around 7-14,000 lbs with the females falling in at the lower spectrum.

But if only this little boy would turn off his computer and walk over to that building with the books in it that you can hold in your hand and flip through with your fingers- remember those?- he'd see what I am talking about.

From the time of Ariostotle people found it absurd that stones could fall from the sky- until a little less than 200 years ago have our minds changed.

 

But I think the real question is: Do the old matriarchs wear the veil?