Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by Anita Meyer, Jan 26, 2010.
More quantum nonsense. An algorithmic machine such as the brain is a classical system.
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Wave your hands in the air like you don't care.
Yes, its called being honest. Unlike yourself I am not deluded in my assessment of my science ability and knowledge.
Funny how that "academically incorrect school of thought" is responsible for all the technological advancements of science. How much science research is done by Bible schools or Islamic madrases? None. The most ardent schools of theology have produced the least amount of science. The entire islamic world's contributions to science, year on year in terms of published papers in reputable journals, is less than the output of Harvard. A single university out produces an entire theocratic position. If all of science has its source in the old testament why aren't the most ardent believers producing any science? And why does an increased understanding of science tend to decrease a group's faith? Why does faith in the bible decrease as people learn more science? If your position were valid the opposite would occur, education in science would affirm people's belief in the bible.
Renaming it to suit your agenda doesn't make your agenda more valid.
I've told you before, I am a theoretical physicist, I work day to day with quantum mechanics. Your ignorant, naive, biased interpretation of something you don't understand isn't supported by evidence and fact. I know from both personal experience and discipline wide data that the level of theistic belief is much much lower in the physics community than the lay-population. Quantum mechanics does not justify your claims. And even if it did justify the notion of a soul and there being something 'extra' to conciousness that doesn't imply the bible is true. Even if quantum mechanics proved a god exists it doesn't mean your god exists.
This is a common problem creationists and other religious nuts have, you think that if you disprove the scientific position you justify your own. No, proving evolution wrong doesn't prove creationism, never mind the creationism of the bible. It isn't a dichotomy, other than in your mind.
To those of us who care whether or not our beliefs are true its a flawed, immoral, self contradictory work of fiction which is contradicted by reality and reflects the world view of a bunch of iron age frauds, hacks and mentally unwell bigots.
Even if the bible were true the deity it describes is not worthy of praise.
Are you just copying and pasting stuff? You seem to be on auto-pilot, as you spew out things I've already retorted, you ignore the fact I know quantum mechanics and so can see through your BS and you have nothing to justify your position other than bible quotes and dubious interpretations.
If quantum mechanics (and all of science) is in the bible why didn't someone use the bible to develop it? Why did it take someone using the scientific method (the same scientific method which Galileo got into trouble with the Church for employing) and being guided by experiments to discover? Why did science only develop once religion lost its grip on Western culture? Why does so much of the bible's claims about science contradict reality?
And the notion of matter being made of atoms predates the supposed time of Jesus.
You have had to use hindsight to interpret a passage to mean something science has discovered without the help of religion. That isn't 'openly exposing' the principles of science, its you using hindsight to make the bible say whatever you want. That passage about camels and the eye of a needle has been interpreted to mean 1000 different things to 1000 different people at 1000 different times. And muslims do the same with the Koran, claiming Mohamed knew about relativistic time dilation and worm holes due to some convoluted interpretation of some passage in the Koran. You can do it with any lengthy book. Thus it is not support for your position.
The fact the total energy of the universe is constant doesn't mean you can't have open systems within it.
You can define a system by listing the objects in it. If energy or matter can enter that system from other objects then the system is by definition open. You are an open system. The Earth is an open system. The universe is a closed system. Open systems can exist within closed systems. To deny that is to claim you don't eat. That's a pretty serious denial of reality.
Yes, its futile because you completely deny reality.
If you eat food then you are by definition an open system. Do you eat food, yes or no?
Yes, yes, there's a government conspiracy against you.
I see you don't know what a manifold is or how the count the dimensions of it.
Do you really think you're going to be able to just lie again and again about physics on a physics forum when talking to a physics PhD?
You've already demonstrated you don't know anything about these things, why you continue to just make things up is baffling. Surely you know you're not fooling anyone?
Circular reasoning. Until you demonstrate a god exists and made the universe you can't claim that all medicines come from god. If god doesn't exist then they don't. And even if the universe was made by a deity that doesn't mean its the deity of the bible. You can substitute in any holy book's name in your argument and its just as valid (ie not at all) and thus your argument holds no weight.
Given I've told you the bible is not an argument I'll take it from the fact that's all you can say that you admit you don't have any real argument, you can only parrot the bible and not think for yourself.
And once again, well done!:bravo:
AlphaNumeric has been given the gift of ratiocination, and it is a shame that you do not use it.
Firstly, I could care less what you have to say since its all secular reasoning.
Secondly, as I’ve explained that all such technology stemmed from the Bible.
The Bible is in a way the only pier review that truly does exists! You see with science it is a series of judgments, revised without ceasing. It is constantly changing! However as I’ve clearly shown that the Bible is timeless and has never ever been falsified EVER! Things in it still remain true to this day, unlike the whims of modern science. Though science is good at helping us out such as with modern technology, such as with cars, planes, artificial cells to one day replace our defective biological cells by means of nanotechnology, and electronic equipment and medical interventions (surgery and medicines) that preserve life.
But as I've explained in earlier posts these types of things are also rooted from the Bible, and there are also other examples of extensions (of a closed looped system) that has progressed throughout the course of time. For example, when Samuel Morse discovered the telegraph with a tap tap tap relaying the legendary message - “what has G-d wrought?” The reply clearly didn’t anticipate the social upheaval the electronic media would create from it. From the Telegraph came the telephone, radio, than the phonograph, television, photocopier, answering machine, computer, VCR, compact disc, cellular phone, FAX, internet, Mp3 player, digital technology, GPS and Satellite.
In fact some people think that the use of electricity is a modern invention. But electricity was also used by ancient people who learned that electricity could be channeled when certain metals (iron and copper) come in contact with a chemical acid (lemon juice, grape juice or vinegar) like the Baghdad Battery found in the Middle East. However the Bible speaks about “electricity” in Job and Jeremiah’s day long before Alexander Graham Bell sent the first “electrically transmitted” message in 1844. Ironically, Bells first message was: What hath G-d wrought!
"Come here Watson, I want you," were the words Alexander Graham Bell told to his assistant Watson. These words were the first ever heard over telephone lines, and launched the telecommunications industry. The nation also remembers the first electronic long distance message sent: "What Hath God Wrought" by Samuel F. B. Morse.
However, in the biblical book of Job we find that G-d is amazingly describing messages transmitted by electricity much to the similarity of Bells invention of the telephone. Job 38:35 - Do you send the lightning bolts on their way? Do they report to you, “Here we are”? And in Jeremiah it tells us that G-d speaks through thunder, lightning and wind. Jeremiah 10:13 - When He thunders, the waters in the heavens roar, He makes clouds rise from the ends of the earth. He sends lightning with the rain and brings out the wind from His storehouses. Alexander Bell also invented a device greater than the telephone that enabled sound to be transmitted on a beam of light through the use of a selenium crystal and a mirror that vibrated in response to sound. This invention is built upon the modern principle today that use lasers and fiber optics for communications.
Additionally, crystal formation from NATURE is linked directly to the mathematics of fractals geometry, to not only measure things in the natural world, but to also apply them to man made structures for maximum efficiency. Let me further explain… Fractals are everywhere in nature. And it is here again that we witness a unit of expansion that is consistent with known growth patterns. They not only reveal themselves in crystals, but in our lungs, kidneys, blood vessels, rhythms of the heart, weather systems - from the drainage pattern of rivers to the movements of clouds, the fertilization of an egg, the shape of a fern, a seacoast, a mountain range, or a branching tree. Fractal geometry can even be used to measure the large structure size of the Universe. Whether one looks at these shapes from far away or up close, one sees the same pattern (I don’t know which has a grander view, the telescope or the microscope - someone once said). Consider a tree trunk splitting into boughs, then branches, then limbs and twigs, and stems of increasingly smaller size. As it turns out, every smaller twig and stem, has the same shape as the whole. Each life-form possesses the ability to reproduce itself from a portion of itself. The Bible reveals this truth to us in the record of the third day of creation when G-d created life. Genesis 1:11-12 - And G-d said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and G-d saw that it was good.
Amazingly, this very same statistical and functional pattern of fractal geometry goes into the technology of cell phone antennas (consisting of polygons and triangles) and encompassing computers, and computer graphics. These fractal patterns consists of endless repetition (self similarity and shape to the minutest size) what mathematicians call “Iteration” (repetition). Without fractals (smaller and smaller self similarity) especially for today’s modern technology involving all the intricate and infinitesimal telecommunications needs we are facing would not work. Thus while observing the increasing functional importance of our technology, we begin to see within nature the identical need and commonality for fractals to exists - hence this is perhaps why nature (designed by G-d) uses them in the first place.
One of the new frontiers in the medical field is developing new machines that work to identify fractal formations within the body, since fractals can also be used to recognize mathematical models of cancer down to the minutest blood vessels structure (vessels feeding a cancerous tumor).
Additionally by using fractal geometry it was recently discovered that the distribution of the sizes of individual trees in a forest appears to exactly match the distribution of the sizes of individual branches within a single tree. And by this, we can also determine by measuring the unit growth of a single tree to determine how much oxygen a whole rainforest can produce. What does all this mean? It means that with this knowledge we can open the whole of mathematics of nature eventually allowing us a grand view into scope of the creators works - to know that there is order, design, meaning, purpose, and a foreordained plan for all life. The colossal vista is quite apparent… G-d used both mathematics and art to design nature. Where His formulas were not just made into pictures, but physical material flesh. We must not just look at it and measure it, but to apply it to understanding it in a deeper spiritual and thus buying us time to learn the scriptures and build a better relationship with our creator.
A very famous quote from King Solomon in the Bible states… Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 - What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. Is there anything of which one can say, Look! This is something new? It was here already, long ago; it was here before our time.
As I said, everything is a closed looped system and we are not generating or inventing anything new! We are only reinventing, implementing barrowing and manipulating something that has always been in existence from the time of creation (and this applies to energy too when we eat food). We must realize that we cannot create something new, no not one thing, not even a new color in the rainbow! When we try and think of something that doesn’t exist, we cant do it! Yes we can do amazing things with what the creator has given us, but it is only G-d alone that creates out of nothingness. In realizing this, we must now stop and consider the notion of where humankind got the conscious idea and concept of G-d itself? Where did that initial “thought” come from? We cannot solely assert that the idea of G-d was placed into our minds by early preachers or holy men, because that still leaves open the identical question of where the preachers got the idea from. One cannot come up with where the existence of G-d stemmed from. We can only conclude that G-d has put the knowledge of His existence into every human being.
However in all of this you are clearly missing the point here. The point being… Not only did all such technology stem from the Bible, but people existed just fine without these things (modern scientific technology) years and years ago (actually thousands of years ago) they even lived to be 900 years old. The Bible confirms for us that the early earths atmosphere was different, similar to a hyperbaric chamber that hospitals use today to heal the body much faster. This would have also slowed the aging process for early humans.
All these types of things that modern scientific technology do (combined with money which is the root of all evil) is to gives us a “FREE TICKET” to go buy things. And these are things we truly do not need. Things like that dishwasher, washing machine or drier, microwave or conventional stove, air conditioning or heating units, television, car, or processed foods that are made in a factory and sold at the grocery store. These are luxuries that we truly do not need. These are luxuries that satan tells us we absolutely DO NEED to live in comfort and make things easier for ourselves. Satan tells us that these are things we need in order to exist in today’s society. The plan of satan is to enslave people in any which way he can. Satan is considered the god of Moloch (materialism).
All we truly need is food, clothing and shelter to survive. If we look around in nature these things are freely supplied by G-d. Job 12:7 - But ask the animals, and they will teach you, or the birds of the air, and they will tell you.
Matthew 6:26 - Look at the birds of the air, they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?
Now for those who rely on technology, show off, display, and selfishly and greedily live in luxury, these luxuries will not last long anyways, since G-d tells us (in the Bible) that in the end days, we will again be driven back to the ground and the caves, as happened to men after the fall of Babel. Job 30:6 - They were forced to live in the dry stream beds, among the rocks and in holes in the ground. G-d will once again bring humankind back to the ground. He will humble the proud and lofty, the arrogant and the over-confidents of luxury and laziness.
Isaiah 2:9-12 - So man will be brought low and mankind humbled—do not forgive them. Go into the rocks, hide in the ground from dread of the Lord and the splendor of his majesty! The eyes of the arrogant man will be humbled and the pride of men brought low, the Lord alone will be exalted in that day. The Lord Almighty has a day in store for all the proud and lofty, for all that is exalted (and they will be humbled).
Isaiah 2:17 - The arrogance of man will be brought low and the pride of men humbled, the Lord alone will be exalted in that day.
Isaiah 2:19 - And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
Isaiah 2:21 - To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
The world is a rat race where the struggle of individuals to survive (and make progress) in the competitive environment of modern life has become dehumanizing and an ultimately futile activity. It is pure and simple foolishness.
The simple truth is that G-d never intended us to live like this in the first place. He put us in a “garden to be farmers” and to dwell with Him!
Where has any of this (modern technology) truly ever gotten anybody?
You can take your PhD and stick it where the Sun don’t shine! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
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Well, it has enabled you to peddle your dumbasѕ book. :geek:
And your book is true, how?
Because it proves the bible is true.
And you believe the bible is true.
How do you know?
Because it was inspired by God.
And you believe there is a God?
How do you know?
Because the bible say so, silly.
The Bible is Bullshit...FACE IT!
Why Christianity Fails Part 1 - Christopher Hitchens
Why Christianity Fails Part 2 - Christopher Hitchens
How do we know that Christians are delusional?
So basically, science is valid when it supports the Bible and when it doesn't it sucks.
This single sentence sums up Anita's "argument" and shows her position exactly.
Why is she still allowed to post?
She's unwilling to learn, and very probably actually incapable of doing so.
Funny how you say "Science is in the bible" but as soon as someone points out science which contradicts the bible suddenly its 'secular reasoning' and you don't care.
You can't pick and chose.
Yes, its called intellectual honesty.
Your denial of reality is both astounding and horrifying.
None of the scientific discoveries you list are due to people using the bible. You are only able to reinterpret things after the fact.
Your argument is completely refuted when its noted that other religions play exactly the same game. Since not all religions can be true at once it demonstrates that such a game supports none of them.
Please refrain from using that argument in future, as you'll simple demonstrate you're knowingly dishonest if you do.
A complete non-sequitor. So Morse believed in God, that doesn't mean a god exists or that he's responsible for technology or human innovation or the bible is true. The telegraph was invented through work and thought by people and the consequences are due to people. What messages people send to other people, be they in reference to a god or not, has no bearing on the existence of a god. If he'd telegraphed "what has Vishnu wrought?" would that make Hinduism more valid? Of course not.
You really need to grasp that point. If you can replace 'god' with any other deity or make believe entity and your argument be just as valid then your argument is invalid. So Morse mentioned God, that doesn't mean computers, satellites, GPS, VCRs, CDs etc are due to god. We know the inventors of all those things, we can look back through their work and see their ideas develop.
God is just an assumption you cram in everywhere you can because you're afraid to live without that crutch.
Complete reinterpretation with hindsight. Those passages didn't inspire people to build the technology you mention, it didn't give people insight into the workings of the universe. And they've been interpreted to mean many other things, as has every passage in the bible.
Can you provide anything which isn't just you reinterpreting things with hindsight in a way which is obviously simply to suit your purpose of the moment?
You're just copying and pasting now. You say things like "what mathematicians call “Iteration” " as if you're just talking to a random person, when I've told you repeatedly I've got formal education in this stuff.
If you're unwilling or unable to actually have a discussion in response to things I say then at least be honest enough to admit it. Just parroting crap on topics of physics and maths you have no understanding of makes it clear you know you're being dishonest and you know you can't support your position with reason.
Provide evidence anyone has ever lived to 900 years old. Quoting the bible is circular reasoning and thus not evidence. If you do so, even after I've specifically said why its not evidence, I'll take that to mean you concede you have no evidence.
Obviously you're just scraping the bottom of the barrel when you just post a wall of quotes, as it means you can't provide reasoned discussion.
So go and live on your own in the wilderness. No one will miss you. You'll certainly do the gene pool a favour.
So god didn't want us to use all the technology which you claim he revealed in the bible? That's a little contradictory, isn't it? If god didn't want us to live as we are why did he give us free will? Besides, surely he knows the future so he knew when he made us we'd end up like this so if he didn't want that why didn't he make us differently?
That's another contradiction bible thumpers have a blind spot for. If god didn't mean for us to live as we do or to go to hell (ie it was originally made for the devil) surely that contradicts the fact he knows all things, including the future. Surely when he made us he knew we'd not turn out as he wished. Surely when he made hell for the devil he knew we'd end up going there (because he sends us). You can't reconcile god being all knowing with any statement which begins "God didn't mean for.....".
Didn't you just list a slew of technologies which came from the telegraph? The telegraph which the bible supposedly predicted? If technology is bad for us why is it a good thing the bible supposedly reveals it?
This is the typical creationist hypocrisy. You want to be seen as well read in science, except you don't put in the effort. You want the bible to be seen as predicting science, yet at the same time science is bad as it turns people away from god. You'll quote Einstein for supposedly saying a god exists but then you'll rubbish his relativity, which contradicts Genesis. You'll use quantum mechanics as 'proving' the soul then rubbish people who developed quantum mechanics. You try to slate me for having a PhD in quantum field theory while using the work of people like me as evidence for your position.
It demonstrates your fundamental dishonesty, that you'll cherry pick what you want from the bible and from science to further your own conclusions. The bible is never wrong, except when it endorses slavery, then you need to 'interpret it'. But obviously Genesis is not to be interpreted, its literal. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Even in this thread you and Joseph disagree, you think evolution is nonsense, he thinks its explained in the bible!
Is god so poor at communicating that two people who obviously have read the bible many many many times and believe in god can reach two completely different conclusions? Is god not capable of writing clearly and simply his message to us? If god exists and the bible is his message then he's a terrible communicator.
What's the matter, not willing to answer a simple 'yes or no' question like 'Do you eat?' ? Are you so unwilling to admit even the smallest mistake that you can't say "Yes I eat", as you know it'll mean you admit you are not a closed system and thus your argument against evolution on the grounds of thermodynamics falls apart?
You list all different kinds of technologies, built by people who did as I do, research physics and science, as somehow evidence for your claims and in the same post turn around to rubbish people who have spent time learning. You show your hypocrisy and dishonest and the fact its so simple to prove your claims wrong, via as simple a question as "Do you eat?", just makes your position all the more laughable. You've spent so much time parroting claims and they fall down flat in the face of such a simple question. But you can't admit it, because you know it'll mean admitting how little research you've done and that'll mean undermining your entire "I'm well read and I find things out" persona (or at least the persona you'd like to present).
Can't you answer one little question? Is your faith not strong enough for you to have an honest discussion?
Secular reasoning, as in evil! In fact so secularly malevolent and worthless that your posts are not even worth quoting, copying or pasting anymore.
Although I will say one thing… Wow, what a post of complete nonsense and worthless drivel full of festering stagnation and cognitive dysfunction! You could turn crap into chocolate pie! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Not only does your brain work on a compact framework, it is so repetitive with secular reasoning that one needs an anti-span filter to converse with you.
But it is clearly evident that you have reached rock bottom and are showing signs of starting to dig.
As for your PhD, you will continue to sit in that tree house because you want to be a branch manager. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Here is the lesson for the day, chocked full of honesty…
Many coincidental links can be made that the founding fathers of the United States had all the intents of applying their Masonic beliefs (Qabalah) into the guiding development of the state.
Qabalah teaches us about something called the “Tree Of Life”. It is a “network type structure“ of a 3x3 matrix represented by the beginning foundation of the Tetrahedron, to the middle section of the Cube, and the upper portion of the Dodecahedron.
This is exactly the same way that the US government has structured its (Executive, Legislative and Judicial) with an additional three discrete levels of (Federal, State, and Local) - pending an additional future 3 levels. While textbooks do not teach it, the US government, as exemplified by our founding fathers (who were known to be “Freemasons”) perfectly modeled and structured our governmental system along the lines of balance taught in Qabalistic circles.
We also find these three main branches of government in the Torah.
I wonder how other religious people feel about this book. I don’t think that it is only atheists who would find your book completely inaccurate. Have any theologians, clergy, or any type of church officials given this book a positive review?
This may have already been covered but I don’t understand this review. Is it from someone in here or is your book really just a parody? Your book is so absurd that a parody would make more sense. What gives?
That's one of our pranksters.
guilty as charged Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Good deal! Well written, but are you taking credit for the spelling, too? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
my spelling is just fine - its my typing that sucks
by way of evidence towards my claim, you'll notice that the following post pre-dates the amazon review and says more or less the same thing:
ps nice avatar matey
Moderator note: Anita Meyer has been banned permanently from sciforums.
Reasons given by the moderator in question:
Trolling: when her crackpot hypotheses are refuted she just waits a while and brings them back.
Spamming: she has been hyping her own book.
Pain in the ass: We don't need people here who somebody has to keep an eye on.
Aww…Yes, big improvement…almost sexy!:mufc:
Yeah! :worship: Now maybe Alpha can get his asѕ back up in the science categories, eh?
We have a far bigger problem here and time to call Huston. There are some posters denying factual history repeatedly, and worse, accusing those who correct them as trolling. How can one debate about a creator when they deny there was a temple in Jerusalem!? No one has the right to keep silent over such blatant insanity.
There is no science or even history in the 'bible'. But there is science in the Hebrew bible. The first scientific premise is the introduction the universe is finite - if that is not a scientific premise, than nothing is.
Can there be science without using the Hebrew premises? Evolution and medicine also comes from here.
There is a difference between the Hebrew bible and the Gospels and Quran. The latter are not original religions but resting on a take-over of what they at no time observed, attempted and failed after assuming the Hebrew is dead.
The contradictions seen are exclusively with the Gospels and Quran: these are mutually exclusive of each other, even when discussing the same space-times of history; there rae no contradictions of the Hebrew bible with science, math, history or geography. This anomaly of two failed takeover religions has no connection with the Hebrew bible, which is not based on a localized preferred NAME as the only claim for fame!
Creationism and Monotheism are two of the greatest scientific premises humanity has. These have no scientific alternatives: name one!? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I have not been following Anita's posts and reasoning, but your statement cannot be based on any validity. The great volume of scientific, mathematical, historical and geographical vindication of the Hebrew says science affirms the Hebrew and where it does not must be allocated to human error and deficiency. There is no writings which align more with science than the Hebrew bible. Name one?
Separate names with a comma.