Need any more proof of Americas economic funeral

Discussion in 'Business & Economics' started by Brian Foley, Feb 25, 2005.

  1. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

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    No Im just working class when I landed this job 10 years ago I was just a worker and today I worked myself into promotions if I leave this job its back to labouring .
    That is not socialism in Western Europe in practice nor theory what you had in Europe was a capitalist welfare state brought in after WWII after the experiences of the depression . Now that system is being dismantled in favour of the freemarket financial system , it is encountering resistance .
    Because people lie cheat and steal does not mean we can institute a fair and level system that protects and serve all equally in society . Society always will have deal with such individuals thats a simple reality .
    Capitalism works its as simple as that , Capitalism is designed for the benefit of a plutocracy , Capitalism allows financiers to profit from debt , Capitalism allows parasitical landlords to charge exorbitant rents . Capitalism simply is a parasitical system in which we create a welfare state for the affluent . That what Reaganism and Thatcherism was they reversed the new deals of the post depression world and have sent our economic systems right back to the 1800’s . That wealth in those Banks is our wealth not theirs , they did not create that wealth that wealth has always been there and when we the people take back control of our wealth we take back control of our lives and society . Eisenhower was on to this when he made his farewell speech he warned Americans .
    And the 2 US Presidents Lincoln and Kennedy that began to interfere with that Capitalist system were assassinated by “lone nuts” . This was the platform of Huey Long the man who would of been President by popular choice over Franklin D Roosevelt . Unfortunately and suspiciously and predictably was assasinated by a “lone nut”in 1935 before he could of changed America forever .
    All that which glisters does not make it gold and capitalism is concentrated greed which we live off on the crumbs , whilst rich people feast and skeletons choke on crusts of bread there will never be democracy .
     
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  3. marv Just a dumb hillbilly... Registered Senior Member

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    I'm changing my mind. You're not a Socialist, you're a Marxist.

    The goal of the leaders and promoters of Marxism is to convince people that they are all victims. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need," I believe is the watch-word. Those in need, of course, are those who feel exploited by those they envy. Marxism promises a level field of outcome. Want eventually replaces need and ambition becomes expectation.

    Capitalism only promises a level field for opportunity for outcome. The best and brightest, regardless of origin, will rise to the top and society as a whole will benefit by their hard work.

    I had a neighbor once who drove a forklift in a warehouse. I was running an IBM mainframe computer at the Kansas City Federal Reserve Bank. He would come home and get drunk to work off the misery he felt. I would come home and mow my lawn to work off the stress of my job. He was always mad at me because of the contrast of his desert-looking "yard" to my fertilized and maintained lawn that looked like a park. He finally died of a heart attack. His wife was thankful I've been told. But I'm sure that he would have been at your side politically.

    If you spend time reading, you might try Ayn Rand. And I submit that your knowledge of our Presidents is sadly mistaken. BTW, Huey Long was an ambitious but very corrupt politician, just the type to head up a Marxist government.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2005
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  5. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

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    Jesus Christ.....................
    So I take it Marv your an avid listener of self improvement tapes ....
    The blindingly obvious evidence of Native Americans , like the Aborigines , who live on poverty stricken reservations within a Capitalist society put your whacked out theory to rest . And answer this what of those workers who lost their retirement nest eggs from the Enron collapse should they be refunded that money in full ? I mean if Capitalism sets the level playing feild standard should it not also set the example of fair play

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    Oh God , another parable .
    What this tells me is that you are a hen pecked husband Marv .
    And what this tells me about his wife was that she had not the guts to divorce him and go it alone .
    No thanks I have given up for lent , tell you what Marv try thinking for yourself , stop reading material that instructs you on how to think and act .
    You certainly have not given any debate to prove elsewise .
    Huey long was a capitalist who during the depression realised that a FAIR and GRADED tax system was sound economic policy .
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2005
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  7. marv Just a dumb hillbilly... Registered Senior Member

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    Why should I continue with converstaions with a brick wall?
     
  8. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

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    You are the one who engaged me in this debate , truth is you dont have the intellectual capacity to carry it on .
     
  9. neil cox Registered Senior Member

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    Generally Marv and I escaped the traditional university education, so we missed out on that set of half truths and false inferences. I read more than 1/2 of the 1064 pages of the NAFTA agreement, so I know first hand, much of it is double talk and worse. There is a much longer version, likely even worse. The USA may already have gone too far down this path which will lead The USA to 3d world status. In my opinion the traditionally educated people have typically made the wrong political choices even when they have performed their specialties well.
    We should tell our trading partners that 1% USA consumption must be produced in the USA for every product and service of significance before the end of 2005, or they can expect terriffs etc to make a much higher percentage of domestic production in 2006. Neil
     
  10. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

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    NAFTA was designed by affluent corporations to maximize their profits and this is exactly what NAFTA does . The fact that you and every other Mexican and Canadian fight tooth and nail for jobs is immaterial to these vast corporations .The rest of NAFTA which is secret from the US public would be of a political nature ie: human rights get binned .
     
  11. neil cox Registered Senior Member

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    In theory, socialism could be modified to have some of the better features of capitalism. But it would not be socialism (or fascist, or communist) if we remove the weak point. Government rarely does anything well. I can't think of a single item done well by any government since The Marshell plan. ie the misery of Black Americans has not decreased (on the average) in spite of a trillion dollar investment by the USA government. Support Libertarian candidates. Neil
     
  12. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

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    That is because the goverments of the capitalist West serve a plutocratic platform whereby policy is directed or enforced by the goverment on behalf of the wealthy elite . Thats why at this moment US foreign policy in the mideast is one of retaining the control of distribution of mideast oil in the interests of US petroleum corporations . this bullshit about democracy is just scenery for gullible saps to digest .
     
  13. neil cox Registered Senior Member

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    Do you know of an instance where the the wealthy elete do not dominate a communism, fascit or socialist government? It is wishful thinking that we end the influence of the rich and powerful by weakening capitalism. At best we get a different set of theives to rule us. Libertarian might be different, if enough of us common folks watched carefully what our leaders are doing. The price of Liberty is eternal vigelence. Neil
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2005
  14. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

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    Libertarian from what I understand is extreme unfettered freemarket capitalism with no goverment interference , in other words econimic anrachism . All I want is Free education for all , free health care for all , access to affordable housing for all and full employment and financial protection against un-employment .
     
  15. Rick Valued Senior Member

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    i am sure while all of you are great analysts,please take care to read Gartner Journals and their report on U.S. jOBs and economic scenario.

    i am done for the night.
     
  16. axiomaf79 Registered Member

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    It seems that people that are only given government allowed freedoms don't understand that our Union is given the freedoms not from our government, but rather from our Maker.

    This applies to who we see for our doctors. You want free healthcare, but so much trouble comes with it. Higher taxes is just the monetary downside. What happens when the government decides all person should receive cancer theropy because of some obscure test result. Under a government run system, we would all receive such care regardless if we do not want it or not. Or what about doctors that abuse their posistions...we already see what happens to teacher that teach in public schools.....nothing.

    Im rambling and at work so forgive the scattered thoughts and lack of information that the tip of my tongue for you.
     
  17. Brian Foley REFUSE - RESIST Valued Senior Member

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    I do
     
  18. tjt517 Registered Member

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    America does have economic problems and I think that a tax increase is a big part of the answer.
     
  19. Internationalist Banned Banned

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    Let's face it, no one wants America to fall so as long as the Asians are dependant on US demand for their economic growth I don't fear this "economic collapse".
     
  20. tjt517 Registered Member

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    I do not fear collapse at this time but I do think that the high deficits make America's economy weaker than it should be.
     
  21. axiomaf79 Registered Member

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    Correct, the deficits are weakening our economy. Tax increases will not fix the problems that we face. Changing the system will. Abolish the IRS and the repeal the 16th Amendment. Rid the people of being taxed on income. Switch to a consumer based tax, one that is based on consumption. Hey, you like to buy a lot of toys and excess goods, then you will pay higher taxes. If you know your needs and wants and can control them, then you will pay a lower tax.

    It is a truely fair system in terms of taxing.
     
  22. talk2farley Registered Senior Member

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    "And the 2 US Presidents Lincoln and Kennedy that began to interfere with that Capitalist system were assassinated by 'lone nuts'."

    Hehe, I've met 3rd graders with a more refined understanding of the American presidents than this clown. Kennedy was one of the more devout capitalist presidents who, if I'm not mistaken, oversaw the largest single tax cut in our nations history. The last true Democrat, as far as I can tell. Back when liberalism was synonymous with personal liberty, rather than social slavery.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2005
  23. MrManganese Registered Member

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    I hope this is an april fools joke

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    The US deficit would be a lot larger if Americans weren't such well-trained consumers. Any move to discourage consumption would be political suicide. If it were possible it'd probably be the single best thing ever done for the environment.
     

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