NDE (near death experience)

Discussion in 'Religion' started by birch, Jul 13, 2017.

  1. birch Valued Senior Member

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    I've noticed that most people who have had near death experiences become much better people after the experience. It has a profound and life-changing impact on them. Those who were selfish become less selfish, those who were without hope become more hopeful, those who had questions that plagued them, got answers etc.

    There are several accounts that i found interesting and one was of a girl who claimed she met jesus christ and he told her that he didn't die for anyone's sin, he was just killed because people didn't agree with him. that makes sense to me as the idea of someone dying for yours sins never sat right with me. it just wasn't ethical and it doesn't address how that would even help people to be better ethically. it always seemed to be self-serving idea that someone spun. why should someone die for your sins? it's yours and you should take accountability for it.

    another one was this woman who was very bigoted and judgemental and the spirits showed her a homeless man and asked her what do you see? she said haughtily a lowlife, homeless beggar and then they showed her his 'soul' and she said she became so ashamed because his inner light and goodness was so much better than hers. the moral of that story was that you never know where light, truth or goodness may be and not always in an artificially stratified material world of labels. they also showed her that his destiny was that a high-powered attorney was going to cross his path and he would pass on his light to him so that the attorney can fight for true justice and that on a soul level they love eachother on the spiritual realm and are friends/soul kinship. i thought that was beautiful.

    another was this man who died fairly young in his early 20's and was supposedly before god and he was asked 'what have you learned about love?' and his immature answer was he hasn't been married or have kids yet to which he was immediately whisked out of there. he understood now that was a stupid answer but he was very young at the time without much experience. the moral of that story was that, contrary to popular notions of romance being the pinnacle of love, it is not true. true love has to do with actual caring of another person for their well-being, not just what you can get out of them which most romance/sexual relations are not the pinnacle of love at all. it is self-serving often. if it was the best example of true love, people wouldn't divorce so often. for instance, a love between a parent and child where they both care for eachother innately for who they are is an example of true and unselfish love or the compassion you have for another being or the inner beauty you see in another because of their ethical values. true love does not want to possess or exploit. it is not self-serving. it wants to preserve or improve to be the best it can be. it is truly caring with the best intentions and best wishes. it is totally respectful and respectful of the other's dreams, wishes etc even if it doesn't include you. you want the other to be happy.
     
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  3. birch Valued Senior Member

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    and the examples that counted as love were even little things, not always big showy acts always. it could be a heartfelt moment of compassion, a kind thought toward another etc. not contrived but genuine moments. because only if it's rooted in the genuine first, can it be real.

    as for the guy who was asked what he learned about love, it was a totally different god, the true one he met according to him and then he later met the demiurge, the one of this realm and he showed him how he never lets total good or light to exist here and it was like a chess game to him. he lets both good and evil exist, if too much evil, he recruits more good souls, some under false pretenses and if it veers too much good, allowing more evil souls to incarnate etc. but his real motive is to prove that evil is as good and he often fails. he only succeeds by appearances or by degrading the opposition. that's what i was mentioning in the other post and it is a false and deceitful god.
     
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  5. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    Until a few years ago, most people did not report seeing god or jesus or Buddha or whatever. Of those who did, most reported experiencing the god or whatever they believed in. Most who reported seeing some god or whatever did not say the being or pure light identified itself as god or jesus.
    The vast majority report seeing their dead relatives & friends. IF there is an afterlife, it does not make sense that those people would always be available to meet someone having an NDE.

    <>
     
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  7. birch Valued Senior Member

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    okay, what you say is untrue except of course most messages would come through a medium they can understand but thank you for your worthless post but anyways, the op is about how it affects them profoundly and seems to give them very much needed messages or lessons in some cases that they needed to realize or become enlightened.

    it would also make sense, not everyone would have exactly the same nde as everyone has different lessons or it must come through a different way. some are shown a form of hell. it's all rather interesting though.

    the last part i find the silliest as how do you even deduce who or why someone can or can't be available in the afterlife? because of your comparison to the physical and material existence here?

    for instance, do you think a god would only speak english? or would it speak to you in a way you can understand and relate? this is about the soul and apparently love is an energy is the most universal or possibly beyond language that can be understood or the best of ourselves as lifeforms.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
  8. birch Valued Senior Member

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    5,077
    there are also interesting ones where people during an nde find out info they never could have known consciously such as a pregnancy etc.

    but the one i found the most interesting is the one where you are also warned about the light and that it could be a trap/trick. that even in the afterlife there are no guarantees and you can't just totally drop your defenses and trust. the advice was to make sure that those claiming to be your loving 'relatives' or friends really are and that where they are leading you is actually a good place.

    one account was that this man saw other beings from other worlds go before 'god' to and that we would be unable to relate to them. he likened that we have more in common with an insect on this planet than we would with them but when it comes to morality and love, they also had standards.

    then there was this case of this man on his deathbed who was frantically telling his wife 'they are coming for me!' meaning some scary or evil entities were waiting for him to die to take him. his fear was so real and pitiful. i don't know if he was a good or bad man in life but if he hadn't been a very bad man, that's just sad. even if it wasn't real, the fear he had was real and that's disturbing. it was very real to him.

    i don't believe also automatically that all negative nde's happen to people who deserve it or good nde's don't happen to those who also don't deserve it. i've never witnessed everything being fair in all cases anywhere but it i would hope that there is a place where eventually it would be. otherwise, that's just fuked up just like here.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
  9. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    14,148
    ^^^
    I did not say they cannot be available. IF there is an afterlife, there are many possibilities most of which would involve leaving this life behind & getting on with that life & most involve completely forgetting this life. If somehow I could know the experiences are genuine, I would yet have much doubt about that aspect of it. Neither of us knows exactly what is happening & how or why. It could be that relatives do not show up but people are presented with that scenario to help them feel more comfortable with it & be open to it.
    I have studied NDE for 40 years. What I said is true.
    If you reply to this post, I might or might not answer. If you do not reply to this post, I will not bother you with any more worthless posts in this thread.

    <>
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
  10. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    5,695
    They are dead

    What else have they got to do?

    I would ask those who are dead

    "Are you happy to see me so we can now be together forever?

    and

    Would you be pissed off if I go back for a bit more life?"

    How far back would the family tree go?

    Grandparents OK you might know them

    Great X 12 grandparents who turn up to see who occupies the current end of the line?

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  11. birch Valued Senior Member

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    5,077
    there was an account from one man who saw that those spirits who had been addicted to say alcohol or cigarettes would hang around those who were drinking and smoking vainly trying to grasp at drink or cigarette instead of moving on. he saw one man who ended up passing out from alcohol and apparently in his vulnerable state, a sort of fissure opened up around his inner core and one of those prior alcoholics crawled inside. brings home the point of inner demons, doesn't it?

    he also saw something bizarre too and that is that those who watch horror movies do not realize that a part of their soul while watching is being drawn or taken from them into the movie screen to be tortured just like what they are viewing. but it showed someone who was laughing at the screen, those types who have no sense of fear or caution. i think it's a metaphor but how he described it was seeing that the most vulnerable part of the person was like being taken into the screen itself and subjected without the viewer's knowledge. this is the most interesting and bizarre part to me because i would think the person would be aware of it in some way if that were the case or not want to watch horror movies.
     
  12. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    So what. Transformative experiences are common under many alternative states of mind, like drugs and crucifixions.
     
  13. birch Valued Senior Member

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    5,077
    why the disrespectful attitude toward nde? you think it's un-noticeable? does or did nde OFFEND you or something? SO FUKING WHAT about your sarcastic reply. it's not a competition.

    please do tell the positive transformative experiences people have that change their lives from drugs and crucifixions, TROLL? besides ruining their lives. haven't heard anything great, wonder why?
     
  14. birch Valued Senior Member

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    5,077
    what is interesting about many of these nde's is that contrary to how the mind usually works in a self-serving and egotistical manner which even reinforces prior ways, habits and thinking, most nde's seem to enlighten areas where the person was blind or ignorant of. it doesn't stroke their ego but conveys a message in a way that helps them evolve. there are several cases where the person was an asshole in life and pretty much nothing probably would have changed their personality but the nde experience seemed to have the content that was specifically needed for further positive growth, especially to pique some people's conscience, where they paid no attention to it before. for some, it was showing them hell, for some it was a form of heaven or both or something else entirely. but each one seemed to be tailored to that person, didnt' matter whether they were atheist, agnostic or religious.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  15. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    52,973
    Because there is a lot of nonsense surrounding the subject. NDEs are no different than any other historical spiritual practice which can involve: Rituals of endurance, dancing, chanting, fasting, wandering off into the wilderness, hanging from hooks inserted into one's pectoral muscles, placing one's hand in a basket of stinging ants, getting tattooed, nailing yourself to a post, or taking powerful hallucinogens. I seek to dispel the mysticism and nonsense that asserts there is something special about almost dying.
     
  16. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    5,695
    I agree

    Had only small personal experience from being around some people who have been nearly dead before we (accident and emergency department personnel) revived them

    The few I met again in the various wards never mentioned anything about their brush with death

    And no colleagues mentioned any thing of the sort from their conversations with patients

    As casual observations I say there were a few reactions with some of the patients

    Some appeared to reflect on their life and did seem to be a bit more tidy with living

    Others went back to the same dangerous lifestyle and become repeat visitors until the balance tipped over into death

    Others who were living normally and had some event occur not related to lifestyle which killed them seem to be in the main unchanged when discharged

    Funny having reflecting on those times one of the best memories I have is how we all felt great after we had sent a patient to which ever section of the hospital was going to continue treatment

    Followed by how pissed off with the patient we all were for the mess caused by the resus which we needed to clean up

    Still happy days

    And any day I wake up without a police chalk line marking my position will be another happy day

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