National Security Adviser Michael Flynn Resigns amid Russian Controversy

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Kittamaru, Feb 14, 2017.

  1. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    5,051
    Um, what? Was that a typo? Or if you know there are no reputable sources, why did you make a claim of fact you can't support?

    Guys - primarily what I've done here is request quality sources and been attacked for it. On a supposedly science oriented site, this should not be an onerous request!
    Telepathy does not constitute a reputable source - but good to know where your head is at!
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
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  3. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    I've given criteria, billvon. The FACT of the matter is that there is but ONE [known] source of any kind claiming treason. Im quite confident you guys agree he is not reputable otherwise you would be arguing he is. And I'm quite confident that if you guys had any better ones you would provide them.
     
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  5. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Can't properly support using the web ...silly... that is the point I was making...

    What web source do you feel is actually credible enough for you to be convinced?
     
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  7. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    5,051
    Then how can you be so confident your claim is factual? How do you know?
    An analysis by a mainstream news source would be ideal, but I also said I'd be ok with a member of government making such a claim (because it was claimed that that exists).
     
  8. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    22,713
    Which claim in particular are you refering to?
    if this one
    common knowledge, human nature, fact is, he did what he did. Most reasonable people would be thinking that he could be guilty of treason... including people of influence...
    don't need a link...
     
  9. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    5,051
    Jeez, you guys suck. You can't even be bothered to support and analyze your own claims! Ugh, I guess I need to do it for you. Don't worry, I'm good at this: I was once forced by a professor to argue both sides of a formal debate because my partner sucked (true story!). So here's a hypothetical argument one of you might have tried to make if you bothered trying:

    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    So here's the thing. You guys keep dodging your own sources, so there's a handful of possibilities to explain your actions:

    1. Trolling.
    2. Lying.
    3. Too lazy or blinded by your partisan rage to comprehend what you are reading.

    I'm guessing it's a mixture of all three.
     
  10. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    4,188
    Not that it will matter but you asked:
    “Let’s not lose perspective on exactly who we’re talking about here,” he continued. “If members of the administration are essentially conspiring with Russia, either through the campaign earlier, now than the — look, Wolf, that’s the definition of treason. This is a very, very serious affair. We all have to understand what’s going on with Michael Flynn, but we can’t let this little scandal or perhaps a big scandal at the moment let us lose sight of the much bigger scandal, which is what is the overall connection between Russia and the Trump administration.”
    https://www.dailykos.com/story/2017...h-Moulton-former-Marine-calls-Trump-a-traitor
     
  11. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    Yes, you do need a source to support your claim. You claim links exist. I claim they don't. Since I can't provide a link to something that doesn't exist and you (and those arguing your side) originated the discussion of the claim, you are required by etiquette and the rules of the forum to back-up your claim with a source. Otherwise, all this forum is is a pointless "Is not!" "Is too!" "Is not!" "Is too!" forum.
     
  12. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    5,051
    "If".

    That's a totally meaningless hypothetical, not an accusation.
     
  13. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Is it treason? Probably not, but it is illegal, and corrupt as shit. Trump also knew he was blackmailable for weeks and kept him on, that's scandalous. We need a full investigation of Trump's connection with Russia, whether he knew about a conspiracy to forgive sanctions in return for helping his campaign.
     
  14. douwd20 Registered Senior Member

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    207
  15. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    22,713
    Another very intriguing observation is that Facebook (mine) fails to show any trending articles of a political nature. Which is pretty amazing when you consider on average 3 to 4 trending Trump news articles appear daily for many months.

    Something serious is up IMO for Facebook to shut down like that.
    Any one else got the same issue?
     
  16. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    No; the Flynn story is trending 6th on mine:

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Note that facebook *may* have started cracking down on the fake news that used to cover it, so that might have caused some previously trending stories to get buried.

    [edit] erp; my feed also has a link dedicated to trending political stories. So there's that too...
     
  17. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    22,713
    Looks like they may have switched to regional ( locality ) I only get AU political stories now... hmmm
     
  18. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    5,051
    • Members are asked to refer to other members using their chosen screen names.
    So now that we're all in agreement that there are no legitimate allegations of treason here, let's talk about the actual crime:
    No, sillyjoe, the Sedition Act was repealed almost a hundred years ago and based on current caselaw would probably have been found unConstitutional anyway! And unless you are 120 years old, you couldn't possibly have been a counterintelligence officer when it was in force (though that would explain a lot!)! Sillyjoe be so silly!
    Yes, seriousjoe, that's the one!

    The Logan Act is an interesting 218 year old anachronism. At face value it seems Flynn violated it. But no one has ever been prosecuted for it, not even the guy it was named-after, who continued violating the act after it was passed in response to previous actions by him. The wiki article lists about a dozen likely violations:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act

    So why weren't they prosecuted? Probably because the Logan Act is logically null. See, a private citizen or non-empowered Congressman doesn't have any actual power so they don't have any actual ability to negotiate deals behind the government's back. Since they aren't actually in a position to offer a foreign government anything, they can't actually do any "negotiating". So a charge that they were interfering with government negotiations is logically null. So no harm, no foul, no prosecution, ever. Logical nothingburger.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
  19. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    13,938
    My apologies, Russ, for not being able to revisit this - having been at work the last 14+ hours has made it difficult (my last posts were over a break). I'm terribly sorry that my schedule inconvenienced you (though I'm fairly certain that any source I would ultimately cite would be deemed ill reputable by you if it conflicted your desired viewpoint... Seems to be a dangerously popular trend of apparent Trump supporters as of late)
     
  20. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    Schedule inconvenience does not explain the posts you made that had no valid point and adding an excuse for not providing any valid sources/arguments moving forward just further reinforces your lack of valid point. Why are you hitting yourself?

    Try this hypothetical instead:
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
  21. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    22,713
    What crime?
    Oh you mean alleged crime?
    Oh you mean gossip until proven in a court of law and conviction placed crime.
    Oh ..do you have any reputable sources for your gossip?
     
  22. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    I'm of course referring to The Logan Act.
    Well, I'm not the source of this claim, Joe is -- but it is a perfectly reasonable request, so I will of course provide a reputable source for it since I'm reiterating the claim and Joe did not provide a source. It is a reasonable request and I'm a reasonable person and reasonable people respond reasonably to reasonable requests (too bad there aren't more in this thread...):
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/us/politics/logan-act-flynn.html
    The article is aimed at Trump, but Flynn's violation appears assumed in it. For my second point:
    "Defunct", "toothless", null, void.

    My third point:
    Arguable.

    And the broad question:
    Agreed.

    And:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...oncern-behind-mike-flynns-resignation/516630/

    Yeah.

    [yes, I'm aware your request was rhetorical-trolling, but still; flies/honey]
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
  23. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,713
    Well if we are going to speculate, the question of why Flynn allegedly felt the need to keep Putin cool on the issue of sanctions comes up.

    A Bromance perhaps?

    Or was he scared sh*tless that Putin may do something really nasty and previously planned and wanted to mitigate it.?

    Like release damning blackmail material to the media for example.
    If we assume Flynn knew of the risk, why would he risk everything and take it?
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017

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