NASA validates seemingly impossible space thruster

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by Kittamaru, Jul 31, 2014.

Page 3 of 9
  1. zgmc

    zgmc Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    831
    Here's a link, http://archive.today/JVxsP

    I think that this could be a bigger problem than some of you want to admit. Im not sure if any of us can imagine what real space travel would be like. Do we even know which traits would be favorable for long term space travel?
     
    zgmc, Aug 2, 2014
    #41

  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. krash661

    krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,973
    something is weird,it will not post links from this government servers, or the server won't allow it.
    i have no clue.i tried three times.
    i will try to find one of these government projects to post

    any ways.
    that mars " 520 day "(1 year and a half) study is no where near the same time frame as interstellar travel ,
    let alone travel to the heliopuase.

    what i did find so far on public servers is this,

    Interstellar travel-
    under proposed methods
    under generation ships-
    " and sociological problems that life aboard such a ship raises. "

    there are also other data on this.
    other issues that involve humans.
    it's the human element that's the problem.
    there are also ideas,
    like suspended animation

    now at least read and understand this article below,

    i also found this,
    http://hplusmagazine.com/2011/09/23...uterized-intelligence-on-interstellar-travel/
    Implications of Computerized Intelligence on Interstellar Travel
    " merely that we will not travel there as flesh-and-blood humans. The technologies which will disrupt such a mission are two forms of computerized intelligence: artificial general intelligence (AGI, computers and robots endowed with human-level mental capabilities), and mind-uploading (MU, the transfer of an individual person’s mind from the brain to an artificial and engineered substrate, i.e., a computer) [2-6,12-14]. As a consequence, when contemplating interstellar travel, we should focus less of our effort on the challenges of life support, generation-ships (arks) [15-17], social and psychological challenges of long-duration travel [18-20], and even suspended animation [24] "
     
    krash661, Aug 2, 2014
    #42

  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. krash661

    krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,973
    this is massively incorrect.
     
    krash661, Aug 2, 2014
    #43

  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. krash661

    krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,973
    ...

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    krash661, Aug 2, 2014
    #44
  8. Kittamaru

    Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    krash- something you can try if a link wont post is to tinyurl it or even post it in sections
     
    Kittamaru, Aug 2, 2014
    #45
  9. krash661

    krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,973
    i'm not sure if it is the length of it.
    i think it's because they are on government servers.
    or something.
    these projects are on a government server.(nonpublic)

    i received a warning and error message stating
    i do not have permission.
    but all in all.
    i have no clue.
    i'll ask some one here if they know why i can't
     
    krash661, Aug 2, 2014
    #46
  10. Kittamaru

    Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    *nods* That's why I recommended tinyurl - it serves as a redirection, so you are posting a pointer to that URL instead of the URL itself

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    Kittamaru, Aug 2, 2014
    #47
  11. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,270
    I would imagine that it would be anyone who does not take anything from that site you just linked seriously.

    Well obviously the MARS-500 trial was nowhere near what it would be like in interstellar travel. It should be noted that such travel would not have 4 or 5 people sitting there waiting to die, because eventually, they will die. Suspended animation may prove to be a key to prevent this. But before we would even attempt such ventures, we would be striking out, closer to home. And it would be studying those individuals, that we could get some idea of how human beings would react in that level of isolation and distance from Earth, that would then act like a gauge for how humans might interact and survive (mentally and psychologically) during interstellar travel.

    I do think it is absolutely premature to declare that they would simply go insane. There is absolutely no evidence to support that theory.
     
    Bells, Aug 2, 2014
    #48
  12. krash661

    krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,973
    " There is absolutely no evidence to support that theory. "

    (shakes head)

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    what ever.

    also,
    it appears zgmc link was not even read.

    ( any reason to find an argument i guess)
    from post # 30,
    " and even if i did give a freaking link,
    then what ?
    they will still claim not true,
    just so they can argue.
    in a sense,
    there's no point to do so.
    even when i do post a link for " evidence/support ",
    no one reads it anyways.
    there are topics that show this. a couple just recently. "
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2014
    krash661, Aug 2, 2014
    #49
  13. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,270
    Well considering that I have asked you to substantiate your claims and you are citing difficulties posting links, there is no evidence cited to substantiate your claims.

    Secondly, what evidence we do have are from the extended months astronauts spend in the space station and none of them have gone "insane". The MARS-500 study. No psychological damage there either.

    We cannot know the effects of interstellar travel on human beings because we are yet to be in a position to study it properly in the proper setting. Considering that man has yet to partake in interstellar travel, your declaring they will go insane and claiming you have unsubstantiated proof is, to put it mildly, premature.

    How very mature.

    How about you provide links instead of trying to deflect?

    I read his link. And I also read the website it came from (I am always very thorough that way).

    To say it belongs in woo woo land would be an understatement. Perhaps you should take some time to read it as well. Although, the website also advises against spending time on a computer lest you suffer from a psychotic episode - which is ironic considering one has to spend time on a computer online to be able to read his warnings to not spend time on a computer or risk going insane.

    zgmc's link is made up of quotes and works taken completely out of context (weren't you the one declaring that we could not even use sea voyages as examples, yet you believe a link that discusses sea voyages?) and built up on by the author's clear delusions and suppositions. All of it is unfounded and frankly, how it could have been posted in an actual science sub-forum on this site still astounds me. For example, the author of the zgmc's link even has prevention tricks, you know, to stop going insane, since he blame it all on "subliminal distraction". And here are some of his tips..

    The rare occurrence of the injury establishes that is difficult to create enough exposure to cause an injury. But when it does happen the consequences are serious, possibly fatal.

    Our personal experience was intermittent human traffic during eight-hour workdays for thirty calendar days.

    If you have a tower CPU mount it under your desk. That's the way they position it in a cubicle. The hard drive busy light is about the height of your low peripheral vision if you put the tower on the desk. Desktop reading of text or writing notes beside the keyboard on the side of the monitor away from the tower makes the blinking hard drive busy light appear to approach from behind when you turn to view the screen again.

    If you have a computer work station/desk in which you turn ninety degrees to write or do other non computer work, turn off the monitor when you turn aside. Remove screen savers in this instance. The movement, animation for example, in your screensaver, two-dimensional movement, might well be detected by your peripheral vision at close range. Alternately cover the monitor screen.

    All home, apartment, or dorm computer workstations are in unprotected workspace. To change that put the computer in a quiet room with no possible movement. If that is not possible in a dorm or apartment position the computer so that your peripheral vision can see only stationary walls as you use the computer in a busy room. In Cubicles and 'Systems Furniture' these protective features are achieved with peripheral vision blocking panels and corner seating positions. It is called 'Cubicle Level Protection.'

    If you use computer or CD-ROM games for many hours day after day, the game playing position should follow the same rules as the computer workstation. Battery operated games will not run long enough on a single rechargeable battery to cause a risk for SPVP.

    Although a laptop does not have a visible blinking light in peripheral vision the same rules apply to your work position. There should not be human traffic moving to you from behind. There should be nothing behind you, which could enter your subliminal peripheral vision field as you turn your head while working at the laptop and be mistaken for threat movement.

    Only movement coming from behind you into your Subliminal Peripheral Vision can cause a peripheral vision reflex. If the movement source approaches you from ahead then enters your Subliminal Peripheral Vision from conscious sight there can be no peripheral vision reflex.     ​


    And you are whining that I did not take it seriously?

    Perhaps it is you who should read the whole page and not just the title of his link.
     
    Bells, Aug 2, 2014
    #50
  14. krash661

    krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,973
    " zgmc's link is made up of quotes and works taken completely out of context "

    an attempt to manipulate ?
    again,
    any reason to find an argument i guess

    what you linked from that site has nothing to do with the actual links and quotes
    (which anyone of those link can be clicked on)
    (like this one,http://iaaweb.org/iaa/Scientific Activity/Study Groups/SG Commission 2/sg24/sg24finalreport.pdf)
    of what we are trying (not argue) to discuss.
    it does say,
    " Prevention: This section is now repeated at the bottom of most pages. "

    now, if you actually scroll up and actually read the sections that actually pertain to our discussion here,
    then you will see, clearly, the evidence.

    all in all,
    i'm not interested in the focused arguing,
    so i guess i'm done with this topic as of now.
     
    krash661, Aug 2, 2014
    #51
  15. Bells

    Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,270
    Evidence of what?

    The author goes to great lengths to discuss Dr Cook and his doomed sea voyage to Antarctica as proof that men who are isolated go insane. In making that determination, he fails to acknowledge the plight of those sailors. Trapped in the ice, no way to get out, extreme weather conditions, running out of food, and their fellow sailors dying around them because of their open exposure to the elements. The author then assumes that the depression suffered by the sailors is proof that people who partake in interstellar travel would also suffer that type of depression and insanity. Context is left out when it is clear that you cannot even compare the two scenarios.
     
    Bells, Aug 2, 2014
    #52
  16. StrangerInAStrangeLand

    StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,396
    I think some people would be less likely to go insane on an extremely long space voyage than here on Earth. How to determine which those are is a problem & that would not necessarily mean they are otherwise fit for it.
     
    StrangerInAStrangeLand, Aug 2, 2014
    #53
  17. krash661

    krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,973
    from post # 51,

    " what you linked from that site has nothing to do with the actual links and quotes
    (which anyone of those link can be clicked on)
    (like this one, http://iaaweb.org/iaa/Scientific Activity/Study Groups/SG Commission 2/sg24/sg24finalreport.pdf)
    of what we are trying (not argue) to discuss. "

    that link alone in the " 1. Introduction " section
    shows exactly what i have been stating.
    then there's also " 4. Behavioral Health and Psychiatry " and " 6.1. Alienation " section.
    it's a matter of actually reading understanding these links on that site.
    let alone the other 10 or so links.
    simple.

    again,
    i'm not interested in the focused arguing,
    so i guess i'm done with this topic as of now
     
    krash661, Aug 2, 2014
    #54
  18. krash661

    krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,973
    deleted comment made to Kittamaru
     
    krash661, Aug 2, 2014
    #55
  19. Sarkus

    Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,406
    No it doesn't. You claimed that humans would go insane. "1. Introduction" mentions nothing of the sort (does not use the word "insanity" or any derivative) but merely mentions that there would undoubtedly be psychological issues. Such examples given were of feeling "socially isolated" and other issues that might impact performance.
    But the report mentions "insane" and "insanity" precisely zero times.
    So it is simply not what you have been stating... which was (to remind you):
    "projects have show humans go insane.
    same results over and over.
    the end result is, they went insane.    "
    I.e. your claim of projects being performed where the result is the same over and over, and that the result is insanity.
    To date you have provided zero links or any other evidence to support the claim.

    One might reasonably claim that there have been studies and papers on possible psychological issues on long-term isolation pertinent to interstellar (or even merely interplanetary) travel that would need to be addressed.
    And such is the reasonableness of this claim that noone (I hazard) would dispute it.
    But this is not what you claimed.

    To remind you of what else you stated, in case you want to dispute it:
    "but what was tested lead to ,
    it didn't matter how many humans were involved,
    it mattered that those humans were cut off from humanity in general(even with communications).    "
    Here you claim that there have been tests. And still no evidence to support this.
    Which again merely relates the possibility of psychiatric problems arising, but also offers the counter possibility:
    "Before considering these psychiatric issues, it is important to state that isolated and
    confined environments can also be growth enhancing and salutogenic [4,14,28]. For example, people in polar environments or space may experience increased fortitude, perseverance, independence, selfreliance, ingenuity, comradeship, and even decreased tension and depression.Some astronauts and co smonauts in space have reported transcendental experiences, religious insights, or a better sense of the unity of mankind as a result of viewing the Earth below and the cosmos beyond    "

    There is once again zero evidence to support your claim: "same results over and over.
    the end result is, they went insane    "

    In fact, read just a tad further along in section 4, and what do we get:
    "Problems related to major psychotic disorders (e.g., bipolar or manic depressive disorder, schizophrenia) have not been reported during space missions, probably because potential space travelers are well screened psychiatrically for predispositions to these psychotic conditions based on genetic and family history background. However, such severe psychiatric disorders have been reported in astronaut applicants, and they occur in up to 5% of people working in space analog environments, such as submarines and the Antarctic."

    Then you should try it some time, as we're still waiting for a single link that supports your claims.

    Run, Forrest! Run!

    Which, as seems to be the pattern emerging here, fails to provide any evidence for your previous claims, rather merely offers an alternative (once the technologies exist) idea of what interstellar travel might entail.
    Care to try again?
    Perhaps you intend to offer links/evidence that discuss "psychological challenges" as being evidence for "projects have show humans go insane.
    same results over and over.
    the end result is, they went insane.    "?
     
    Sarkus, Aug 2, 2014
    #56
  20. dumbest man on earth

    dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,523
    Yet, it was you. krash661 that introduced your 'focused' (as well as "Off-Topic"!) 'argument' in Post #3 :
    After your own "Off-Topic" and "unsupported" 'focused arguing' evidently gave you the amount of satisfaction you "Craved" - you Posted the following :
    krash661, your 'guesses' seem to be just as valid as your 'focused arguments', because 62 minutes later you Post another 'focused argument' and another 'guess'! :

    krash661, is this some "debate" method that is only taught to and allowed to be engaged in by 'Tier 1' Tro...err....Scientists?
     
    dumbest man on earth, Aug 2, 2014
    #57
  21. krash661

    krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,973
    amusing,
    (shakes head)
    what ever.
    besides the quotes from actual astronauts on that one site from zgmc
    if you notice, i also said government projects,
    which i'm still trying to post, but i can't.
    again,
    i'm still trying.

    all in all, i have no interest in what who believes me.
    i can care less.
    especially the ones who are making it obvious that their intention is to only argue.

    now , if i can post the 7 projects, i will do it through pm's now,
    only to who i believe is actually interested in this subject.
     
    krash661, Aug 2, 2014
    #58
  22. krash661

    krash661 [MK6] transitioning scifi to reality Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,973
    amusing

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    all in all, this site is a massive joke.
    and everyday, i have less interest in it.

    edit-
    also,
    my job consist of two parts.
    one is theoretical aspect with taking data and/or information given or obtained.
    the second is reverse engineering and then building, what is commonly called, blue prints from reverse engineering.

    what does your job consist of ?
     
    krash661, Aug 2, 2014
    #59
  23. youreyes

    youreyes amorphous ocean Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,830
    You are right, the average number of days they spent there is 160 days.
     
    youreyes, Aug 2, 2014
    #60
Page 3 of 9

Share This Page