NASA: Humans Will Prove We Are Not Alone

The problem with the random and odds approach to reality, is the unknown becomes like a lottery, where everyone feels lucky before the drawing. The excitement of the lottery approach to science, makes one feel we will find something; win the lottery. But in the end, one or two people out of millions win, with the rest brought back to reality. NASA has a life lottery going, which makes everyone feel they should buy in, since they are feeling lucky. But not everyone will win the lottery. One needs to calibrate the mind to avoid letting the excitement think for you.

If one is objective with hard data, the only life with hard data is here on the earth. The rest is the big foot lottery. Right now we are at the ticket sale time, where all those who buy in are feeling lucky. This is not to say there will not be a winner, but it may not be what everyone expects.

 

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...Much Ado About Nothing...

1.) - re : Post #1 : Most Real Scientists and moderately intelligent Laypeople are already certain that Extra-Terrestrial life exists. Some pertinent examples or "proof" of that can be found at these Links : http://phys.org/news/2013-06-astrobiologists-martian-clay-chemical-implicated.html#inlRlv ; http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/snc/nasa1.html ; and also a 3-year old Thread from SciForums reinforces the uselessness of discussing this non-issue : http://www.sciforums.com/I-need-conclusive-proof-of-Abiogenesis-t-109880.html

2.) - re : Post #5 : Dinosaur clearly stated "The history of the Earth strongly supports the notion that life exists elsewhere in the universe." and "Due to the following I expect tecnologicalcultures to be rare." Dinosaur then goes on to very articulately support his reasoning.
Ergo, padoboy's statement from Post #55, that "Dinosaur is of the opinion we are alone, and ETI is unlikely or rare." is not just intellectually dishonest but may indeed be an example of paddoboy "grabbing at straws to somehow reinforce his (own)rather flimsy argument".

3.) - re : Post #11 : Why must the Poster introduce his own 'Agenda' of consistently attacking "Theism" into yet another Thread? Introducing "Strawmen Arguments" is not an example of any proper Real Scientific Discussion...it is simply a Logical Fallacy.

4.) - re : Post #21 : "...life has only occupied a small portion of the overall existence of the Universe." Another "Strawman Argument". An argument based on the Big Bang Theory(more a hypothesis than theory, actually!) being a Fact.
IF, and I repeat IF, the Universe is only 13.8 Billion years old, there is no good reason to infer or believe that any and all ETL or ETI would have to follow the same hypothetical "calendar" as what some perceive to be Earth's "calendar".

5.) - re : Post #22 : padoboy's question, "But at least they are doing something that could potentially be the greaest discovery in human history.
Out of interest, what are you doing that anyone else would be Interested in?"
I have volunteered for and I am currently involved in the testing of techniques and procedures to treat and/or possibly cure Acute Myeloid Lymphomas or Leukemias. especially the Lymphomas that result from exposure to Extremely High Doses of Radiation.
Ergo, I am somewhat of a "Human Guinea Pig"...personally I find it more discomforting and painful than 'interesting' though.
When I am not in Hospitals and have the mobility and stamina, I voluntarily Teach or Tutor College level students to bring them "up to snuff" so to speak, to prepare them for courses in the Hard Sciences at a few local Universities.

6.) - re : Post #26 : '...theists will claim' and '...theists would claim' - again, why must the Poster use an 'Agenda' of attacking "Theism"?
Again, a "Strawman Argument" is not an example of any proper Real Scientific Discussion...it is simply a Logical Fallacy.

7.) - re : Post #27 : "...the question of life arising "as we don't know it" Is that possible? I mean life based on something else rather then Carbon."
Any Real Scientist will tell you that Real Science is the search for answers to questions that we, as a civilization, do not currently have the answers to. Hence, Real Science has indeed only scratched the surface of what 'we don't know' in relation to the infinite knowledge of the workings of even the currently 'known Universe'.
Real Scientist are open to the possibility of a myriad of 'life forms' based on elements other than carbon.

paddoboy, since you are a 'fan" of Science-Fiction and "Star Trek", the following may be of 'interest' to you in particular :

- the ^^above quoted^^ from : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothetical_types_of_biochemistry

In closing, this is why that I firmly believe this Thread to be, in essence, Much Ado About Nothing.

 

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the original poster of this topic ,
politely asked(#49) to take this focused, ignorant, pathetic, arguing nonsense some where else.

please take this advise
as some of us are sick of the continuous frivolous shenanigans

 

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Search for Other Earths


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRU56w_Vbc4

 

We need to be at peace with nature and fortune for space travel. Who knows what has grown.

 

That's your belief and you are entitled to it. So why then do you see the need to harass those here that want to discuss the far more realistic scenario?
Or as Dinosaur has openly admitted in another similar thread, are you doing it to get a raise out of people?

Others have also noted that, many times Krash....It's more a personal issue though with the particular poster then anything else.
Anyway back on track........

I think most of us are aware that the vast majority of cosmologists/physicists/Astrobiologists, while accepting the straight down the line answer "WE DO NOT KNOW" also realise that the likelyhood we are alone is rather small.
Whether the 20 year time frame given turns out correct, is neither here nor there.
If it isn't, the search will continue [as it should] If we do discover life elsewhere, then it may accelerate the search, and heighten the efforts of companies like "Tau Zero" In their attempts at realistic modes of stellar travel.
Although success in that area will take longer.

The "much ado about nothing" phrase is as we all know just plain crazy. Noting of course that Dinosaur has openly admitted using similar ridiculious phrases and statements, just to get a raise out of the more realistic amongst us, and the phrase in question has the same meaningless objective..

 

I think the most relevant question in regard to the subject at hand, would be if we were to meet a far more advanced form of life, would they have aggressive tendencies.
As much respect as I have for Stephen Hawking, on this question, I disagree with him.
As a species, I think as we have evolved and gained more and more knowledge, we have become slightly less aggressive. I mean I'm certain we have improved somewhat since the dark ages and the Inquisition.
In that respect any race far superior to us, should be that much more tolerant.

The second point I would raise, is that any race far superior to us, would not really want for anything.
Water appears plentiful throughout the Universe, and if they are a class 1, 2 or 3 on the Kardashev scale, energy would be no problem for them.
And hasn't that been a prime reason for human conflict?
I see those two reasons as reasonably logical for us to remain optimistic about future contact.

 

Nice video.
I'm looking forward to the eventual launch of JWST.

 

paddoboy, I refer you to Post #49 :

 

I do remember that a few years before "New Horizons" was launched, NASA was tossing up whether to go ahead with that, or focus on a Europa probe. Budgetary constraints meant that they could not do both. [bloody politics and economics again!]
I thought then that they had pulled the wrong rein and should have gone ahead with the Europa probe, rather then New Horizons.
Don't get me wrong, what they chose is at present going great and I wish it all the luck in the world, but just from my point of view, a probe on Europa, perhaps drilling into its icy layer, I mean the mind boggles!

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From Post #7 by StrangerInAStrangeland

If somebody throws a set of 5 twelve sided dice & announces the total, not much is known about the numbers assigned to the dice. Probabilities relating to subsequent throws cannot be accurately determined without additional throws or analysis of the numbers on the dice.

However, the history of one planet coupled with our knowledge of biology, evolution, & other pertinent subject matter provides a lot of knowledge. For example, it seems safe to say the following.

There are no two-legged insects.

There are no SciFi insects as big as a Texas Steer.

There are no Greek Mythology-like centaurs.​

The last of the above is not as safe as the first two.

A wise man once said

I will stand by my POV that a technological culture is more of a lucky fluke than an inevitable result of evolution.

BTW: Please remember that I expect life to be a common occurrence. It is technological cultures which I expect to be very rare.

PaddoBoy: From my Post #16

In your Post #18, you do not provide my entire remark & then say

 

I copied and pasted your quote from your post 16 as per the following......

Ignoring only the first irrelevant sentence in relation to dmoe.

 

The history & knowledge of biology, evolution, etc on this 1 planet provides extremely little knowledge, IF ANY, about life on other planets, which could be anywhere from none to trillions.

You simply do not know that.

Why do you have expectations of something you have no way of knowing about?

 

Quit whining.

 

In essence, I see the next decade, the 2020's, as answering the greatest question humanity without doubt, has ever asked. Are we Alone?
We are able to extrapolate the numbers, extent, and stuff of life to give us a most probable, No, we are not alone, but getting that 100% confirmed certainty, would be mankind's greatest moment.
When it is confirmed, I won't be surprised in the least, although I still remain enthusiastic and excited, waiting for that defining moment in human history.
I'm sure most of you share my enthusiasm and excitement waiting for that day.

 

brucep, I humbly refer you to Post #83 of this Thread : http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?140862-Jokes-and-Funny-Stories-II/page5

Thank you.

 

You don't know what the word humble means. You're making a fool of yourself. I'm pretty sure that's not your intention but it's what's happening. Most members probably don't give a shit about your crusade to right some imagined slight by ........ whoever. Put a cork in the whining.

 

Every forum has one brucep...Not to worry.
I prefer to concentrate on real science and science history, as I know you do.....
The majority here, albeit sometimes silent majority, know where the problem lies.

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It often has me wondering, if we think how far we have come since Einstein and SR....manned flight, GR, breaking the sound barrier, computers, the Internet, Satellites, landing on the Moon, Rovers on Mars, near positive theories as to how life came to be, how it evolved, how the Universe/spacetime came to be, how first fundamental matter came from that, then stars, planets, etc.
All within the last 120 years or so. What's the next hundred going to bring?
I see a return to the Moon, permanent Moon base, manned mars mission, QGT, stellar travel within sight of some sort of practicality, controlled fusion reactors, [finally] quantum computing, religion near redundant......and of course positive verification, "That we are not alone"
I'm excited!

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After watching the moon landing, I thought we would have several Lunar stations/colonies, 2 or more thriving Mars colonies, mining the asteroid belt & have a much better idea of whether there is other life in this solar system long before now. At some point long ago, I thought by now solar & wind power would be much more developed. Cars & houses are not built much better than they were 40 or more years ago. People still have to destroy their health to make a living in modernized as well as more primitive nations. We cannot prevent natural disasters & seem unable to adequately prepare for them.

I'm disappointed.

I hope you are correct about some things but I cannot assume such. Specially on religion. Tho we are definitely making slowbutsure progress, I would not be surprised at how long humans will be cursed with religion. IF we ever meet peaceful aliens, I hope religion is gone before then.

 

I see much greater questions, such as why can't we all get along & will there ever be peace on Earth & will humans destroy themselves or carelessly let themselves be destroyed & will humans ever spread out to other solar systems so that they cannot all be destroyed in only 1 place & IF humans find intelligent yet not as advanced life on other planets, what will humans do to them.