My last thread on UFO's

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by Trapped, Jan 3, 2014.

  1. Trapped Banned Banned

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    I said the other day I was leaving, this is true. But before I go I have a little gift I want to leave the community to read. Since last year I have been writing a book, based on about 10 years of investigation and my personal contentions surrounding the UFO phenomenon. My intentions was to create a book that was easy to read. There are little in the way of references throughout the book, but it is packed of information which can be investigated yourself. Indeed, this is what I want, I want more people to investigate the phenomenon for themselves, not just relying on reading it from some book.

    I make a note at the beginning of the book, that everything spoke about is as close to the truth as possible. It gives us a perspective of how real the phenomenon is and what the mindset of the world is concerning the subject. It gives us detailed accounts we can work with, which I speak to the reader on a personal level, as though I was sitting with you, telling you about what I know. I am not coming back, because... well you can see for yourself in some other threads. After weeks of ... relatively ok discussions with the sceptics, they are getting tired of talking to me and are frequently resorting to ad hominems.

    I don't have time for any of that, and I warned posters of this before I started. So I leave you this final piece, two chapters of my book which I am planning to publish later this year. I decided to copy it here also because I think discussion here and on other forums have helped me to finish chapter 2 which I had been stuck on for months. I decided it should have been about the consensus, which I though would be interesting to some here, since it contains some nice information about the general consensus of scientists now and then.



    Chapter Introduction
    Have you ever looked into the night sky and wondered, 'are we alone?'


    Consider some figures to help you make your decision: There are roughly around 300 billion stars alone in this small portion of the universe we call our galaxy, the Milky way. There are in fact hundreds of billions of galaxies in this universe. Some say as large as 500 billion!

    There is no viable way to know exactly how many stars are in the universe in total. We know the universe is massive possibly even infinite, it has a diameter of about 93 billion light years. A light year is how long it takes for a particle of light to travel in a year. Since a particle of light, like all massless radiation in the universe travels at the fastest speed known... in just one second, to give you an idea, light can travel 186,000 miles, it then has taken about 13 billion years for a photon to reach us from the farthest reaches of space... that is a lot of space and a lot of time.

    In a universe, where so many galaxies reside in so much openness it is hard to imagine that Earth is alone in this universe concerning life... Earth came onto the cosmic stage around 4.5 billion years ago, but we know star systems have been forming much earlier than this. The earliest galaxy discovered may have clumped together as early as 450 million years old. It was around 600 times more denser and 8.5 times smaller than our own. Star formation alone happened much earlier than this, it was at it's maximum rate of production about 5-8 million years after Big Bang.

    With some idea how long we have for some life to appear in the universe, we can draw some conclusions from home. Life appeared on our planet about 3.6 billion years ago... Earth was less than 10 billion years old! Taking into account how long it probably took for Earth to produce just the right conditions, known as the primordial sea, in a time scale compared to the universe, life on Earth appeared rather dramatically and quickly. But just as dramatic, many of these lifeforms where destroyed in what is called a mass extinction. There are have been five estimated mass extinctions, which can be related to a number of different factors... but the main point is, that as soon as that original single celled life appeared on Earth, life in general has been relentless. Today, over 8 million species of life exist on planet Earth.

    So we know life must want to thrive and as the famous statement from Jurassic Park says, ''life will find a way.''

    So has it found a way on any other planet?

    Most likely it has and most scientists would seem to agree that the universe is far too big to suggest that life elsewhere is improbable. In fact, life elsewhere should be expected, we certainly cannot be special enough to be the only organism ever to observe the universe.

    Since galaxies where forming as early as 450 million years after big bang, that gives us about 8 billion years for the universe to allow life elsewhere, that would be, for an alien civilization an 8 billion evolutionary jump start. Now, I am not suggested that life appeared in the universe 8 billion years ago, but life may have appeared any time since then. Even a civilization only 1 billion years old would be like gods to us. Their technology will be far more advanced, they will have mastered interstellar space travel and they will know all sorts of new physics we are yet to discover.

    The reason why this is important to note, because of the current mindset of some scientists who believe that it is not only impractical to think of aliens ever visiting us, but some consider it impossible because the energy required to travel from a distant galaxy would far outweigh a space crafts capabilities... however, this is not exactly true.

    Yes, it is true that rocket-powered propulsion will never get us to the distant worlds, this is almost universally-accepted. However over the last few decades, many advancements have been made in our understanding of the physics involved in moving through large distances of space and time. There exists today, about several different methods that have been suggested in which a civilization could use to travel these large distances.

    One such method is a largely hypothetical device known as Alcubierre Drive. Using sophisticated equations which describe the fundamental nature of the universe, you can find solutions which can drastically cut distances down. Theoretically, such a device can make a spaceship artificially move faster than light. It wouldn't be unreasonable for someone to think, that a race of aliens many years ahead of us may have found similar solutions and have created such devices.

    There are cruder methods to get from one place to another in a reasonable time... such as an antimatter propulsion system. To give you some idea of the physics behind this method, all particles in nature come in pairs called particles and antiparticles. When a particle and an antiparticle come together, they create a large amount of energy. The problem with using this energy as a propulsion system, is that it is hard to create antiparticles and keep them safely contained somewhere, because whatever you contain it in will be made of ordinary matter, resulting in a massive explosion. So how do you solve that problem? The longest amount of time physicists have been able to capture antimatter existed for about 16 seconds and consisted of about 300 antiatoms. Not only is it hard to contain antimatter (usually held in magnetic fields), it is also the most expensive material on the face of planet! To give you some idea how expensive it is, it is around 63.5 trillion dollars for just a gram. So as impractical as antimatter devices are for us at the moment, it may remain as a possibility for us in the future. But what of an alien civilization?

    It might even be argued that an alien civilization will be so far ahead of us evolutionary-speaking, that they have discovered new area's of physics we ourselves are yet to find. They may be using a technology so alien to us, that even if we had a ship to back-engineer it would most likely be unsuccessful as their technology would appear to us, so unlike anything we have ever dreamed of.

    If this is true, then some things need to be put into perspective. First of all, we would gather it is very likely we are not alone in this universe: In fact, some scientists argue it is likely thriving with life. Given 8 billion years as a possible time framework, how many of those species of life managed to reach evolutionary intelligence matchable with humans?

    It's hard to say. It's likely that the number becomes much fewer. The reason why one would assume this is because while life thrives on Earth with about 8 million species, there appears to be a very small amount of life with intelligence even close to humans. Our closest ancestor, the chimp, being one of them, including the broad range of homonid species related to man, Elephants and even Dolphins show a remarkable intelligence. But in general, no creature has come as close to the unique intellect we show. But in general, there is very little sophistication in the way of intellect when it comes to other species, we do appear to be unique this way.

    So does this really mean that life-bearing planets must be smaller in number to harbour intelligence? There is no convincing consensus to this question either way I am afraid. Some scientists argue if there is a lot of intelligent life in the universe, why haven't they contacted us? Of course, this assumes that they haven't already. Some scientists like Michio Kaku argues that our methods of sending signals into space using SETI dishes, may be too primitive for an advanced culture, they may be trying to detect life in others ways.

    Drake's equation, attempts to mathematically answer the question about how much life is in the universe. Probabilistically-speaking, given uncertainties as well, the equation can make an estimate of anything between 1000 and 100,000,000 civilizations in our galaxy alone. Keep in mind some figures I hit at you earlier, there being something around 500 billion galaxies in the universe alone. If all galaxies where roughly the same (which they are not, but for smudging purposes) this could mean there could be anything up to 500,000,000,000,000,000 civilizations in the universe! Even if we cut that number to half and by half again for good measure, it is still a large number!

    How true this is, we will not know for a very long time. But it is safe to say, that if any of these large numbers are true, we must begin to be open to the idea that aliens may have in fact the technology to reach us from whatever distant star system they may be in. Today, some people think such thinking to be delusional that any alien civilization has ever visited our planet. After the little statistical lesson I have given, do you feel these sceptics are correct in what they say?


    It's not only possible we have been visited, but scientists today, of high calibre such like Stephen Hawking, are warning us that a visitation from an alien civilization may turn out to be a reality. He likened the visitation similar to perhaps Christopher Columbus' arrival in the Americas. If Hawking is warning us that this is possible, (including many other scientists) then we must start to take the idea seriously that we have been visited already.

    If we have been visited by aliens, wouldn't there be proof? Surely if aliens existed, they would land on the White House lawn and make themselves known?

    Well, as it turns out, something strange has been happening in our skies for a long time, perhaps as early as the late 1800's and some claim even before that. Aerial phenomenon have been showing up in our skies for over a 100 recorded historical years... and it is one of the most compelling phenomenon ever to reach our doorsteps.

    The UFO phenomenon sometimes, is taken with ridicule. Some people just cannot fathom that an alien race has visited us, or why they would dance about in the night sky... These are all questions I am willing to talk about and answer in my book with some startling consequences. The major task of my work, is to convince the reader of a number of things;

    1) To prove without doubt, something akin to flying saucers and other aerial craft have been observed in the skies. The first part is to acknowledge there is a phenomenon.

    2) That it isn't stupid, irrational or any other derogatory term included to think that aliens have visited us. There is nothing in science which states it is impossible for an alien civilization to visit our planet.

    3) That there is plenty evidence, physical and testimonial that UFO's exist and display technology which far exceeds our own. This will believe it or not, be the easiest part of this work.

    To get an idea of how I will do this, throughout this work I will take the reader through some of the worlds best UFO sightings and encounters, ranging from civilians to military officials, top memo's and secret documents which had been hidden from the public for many years until the freedom of information acts where set in place. We will learn that not only the phenomenon real, but the government took a particular interest in the subject on a number of occasions. There have even been clear cases of cover-ups concerning many of these events. What I will tell you in this book, will be as close to the record as possible. You will be able to make your mind up at the end, whether you think the alien hypothesis is the best hypothesis or not.


    Chapter One

    The Conspiracy


    I often feel calling the UFO phenomenon as a conspiracy doesn't usually give it justice. Even though technically-speaking, it is a conspiracy theory, it isn't like other conspiracy theories. Many conspiracy theories are led by quacks, let's be honest, so what makes the UFO phenomenon different? Well, unfortunately, there are still some quacks involved who will believe almost anything... But there are still some of us sane enough to talk about the subject coherently, myself included while I sit writing this without the aid of a tin-foil hat.

    What makes the UFO phenomenon so interesting is the massive heap of evidence it has to support it. And I don't mean, crop circles or abduction cases, neither these ''so-called'' phenomenon interest me. You can make a crop circle over night, it has been proven. Many abduction cases are too hard to believe and very little in the way of evidence a lot of the time. The things which interest me, are bona fide UFO encounters, involving the military or anything related to what is called a ''mass-sighting.'' When a mass sighting happens, or when there are official reports describing the military interactions with UFO's, you realize how difficult it is to question the integrity of such reports.

    Of course, as a conspiracy theory, we need our bad guys and as it turns out the government quickly becomes the villain in many UFO stories, with talks about them knowing much more than they ever lead on, or for destroying evidence or deliberately hiding it. This isn't so far from the truth as you will learn throughout this book. But where does our conspiracy story start... when did the government acknowledge there was something real in our skies and it wasn't their own?

    This question, is not so easy to answer... But I will attempt to give some possibilities.

    As far as I am aware, the first major UFO crash that was ever reported happened in a sleepy town of Aurora, in Texas. In 1887, the townfolk reported an unusual object flying in the sky, six years before the first ever human flight by the Wright brothers. It was claimed, that the aerial ship crashed into the windmill located at a farm owned by Judge JS. Proctor. (Actually, around the same time America was suffering a whole host of sightings across the country of unidentified aerial ships) when flying was but a dream).

    The remains of the craft was recovered and said to have been of an aluminium appearance and there was a body, which looked like nothing from this planet and was even referred to as the 'Martian.' The body was reported to have been buried in the local grave. A few investigators went to that grave and found evidence of where the body might have been buried. When they had been denied access to the grave, they returned the following day to have found things had been tampered with. The metal that had been claimed to have been buried with the body (while most of it had been thrown down the well underneath the windmill), the metal they detected the previous day had suddenly vanished.

    A hoax theory existed, because for a while it was believed there was no such windmill in the area. It turned out, they found the well and the platform on which the windmill stood, utterly collapsing the hoax theory. Investigators took water samples from the well, and although they sent a diver in to have a look for parts of the ship (which never was found), the water did unusually have a high level of aluminium traces. Since no one is allowed to dig the grave up where the body is thought to reside, it appears for now we will never know whether an alien really crashed in Aurora that day... you would have though there would be a universal natural curiosity to know what is in the grave, but obviously some people in higher places have different opinions.

    This event happened in 1987, but it is unclear how much the government knew about it or how seriously it was even taken by surrounding states. Is it possible, first contact was made that day and remained a sleepy legend for many years to come? We don't know, nor can we fully rule out the hoax explanation until we have access to the grave.

    Perhaps, the most famous UFO event ever in history, is the Roswell Incident. Indeed, when people often think of UFO's, they often remember the curious events of what happened that day in Roswell, when it was claimed a UFO crashed by a nearby Ranch. This happened in 1947 and while Roswell is no doubt the most famous sighting, an equally important sighting happened the same year when Kenneth Arnold popularized the term ''flying saucers'' when he spotted several UFO's on his flight. Concerning the Roswell incident, some believe there is overwhelming evidence of a cover-up conducted by the military who at first, claimed they had in their possession a flying saucer. This statement was later changed to an experimental weather balloon.

    Their later official report describing what happened, was that the craft which crashed near the Ranch was in fact a high flying balloon operation under the declassified name project Mogul. However, the report describing this has been heavily criticized by some top UFO researches, including Stanton Freidman who says it ignores pivotal evidence.

    This event was fifty years later than the Aurora incident, however, there is some indication that the military probably knew about the existence of these crafts in our skies ealier. Certainly UFO's had been appearing in our skies before this and in other countries as well, such as a 1909 wave of UFO's of Otago in New Zealand and even seven years before the Roswell incident, Foo Fighters where being reported in 1940. It was around the same time, there were claims of military retrievals, which we may go into some depth later... but one such claim happened in Cape Girardeau where a UFO crash happened and supposedly the military had been involved in a cover-up.

    These cases, which happened a long time ago, would be hard to believe if it wasn't for the mounting evidence yet to be presented. If anything, these cases that happened a long time ago, must be approached objectively and with an open mind, since history has a tendency to repeat itself... and repeat itself it shall.

    The date, is 1952, only fives years after the Roswell Incident, something amazing happens which both stuns and shocks the public. A serious breach of defence occurred that day (and over a period of a week) when several UFO's flew over the White House. What makes this sighting incredible, is because we have radar confirming the objects and we have corresponding confirmation from air defence pilots sent to intercept the objects. Getting a radar signal, means that we are dealing with a solid object in the sky and to make sure it isn't a technical error, confirming it in the sky by professional pilots seems to varify without doubt that something physical was in the sky. What was daunting was what they saw... it matched absolutely no conventional explanation.

    What they saw can be described as ''Orb UFO's.'' Orb UFO's are actually very common - being among one of the most common types of UFO's seen in the night sky... and sometimes in daylight.

    Often much brighter than any star and sometimes brighter than the moon, orb UFO's may indeed make up some of the more curious aspects of the UFO phenomenon. What should be noted, is the speed of the objects seen in Washington. When pilots confirmed the orbs shooting away at fast speed when they came close to them (suggesting an intelligent control), radar confirmed at that exact moment of them disappearing off radar. It was later determined that the speed of the objects where travelling at around 7000 miles per hour.

    Why is this important?

    Nothing during that era, in our aviation could move at such a speed. Even 20 years later, the X-15 developed to move at the fastest speed possible for the time, was a little over 4000 miles per hour, that is roughly a 2000 mile per hour difference! If we take the military seriously in their reports stating that the UFO's where intelligently controlled, then it begs the question who was controlling them since they appeared to display a technology far greater than our own. The objects, keep in mind, had no visible propulsion system, they were simply balls of light. Not only do the description of the objects match like nothing on Earth and even to this day 60 odd years later but the speeds of the objects where unmatchable even 20 years after the event.


    This must have had the highest offices in the land soberly concerned. To understand the implications of the statement that something was in our skies, doing something we couldn't do must have been a concern of national security... during the cold war, it was unthinkable. The greatest nightmare was the soviets had developed some kind of spy device. What that explanation doesn't answer for is why the Russians where decades ahead of America, even when America reached the moon first, in the famous historical 'space race.' It's only fair to surmise, that blaming the Russians for the technologies seen in the sky only raised more questions than answering them.

    And of course, it did have the highest offices concerned. According to the then-president, Harry Truman said there had been several meetings since the incident, concerning military officials and other important persons. The full disclosure of the talks will never be known. It becomes clear however, that the government really wants to hush the situation away by offering less than par explanation of what was seen. The main explanation provided was that it had been a weather anomaly. The military denied this as a possible explanation. Keep in mind, what the explanation was really saying was that the military was incompetent and where capable of mistaking a weather anomaly with something else. It was also suggested this explanation didn't answer how radar got such clear and concise hits off the objects if it was merely a weather phenomenon.

    Imagine my surprise, when in 2011 the White House publically says there ''is no evidence any life exists outside our own planet.''

    I replied on the spot, ''must be having a memory lapse concerning the 1952 incident then.''

    Indeed, not just the 1952 event but all cases in which strange phenomenon has been observed in the skies. Their statements continued:

    ''The US government has no evidence that any life exists outside our planet, or that an extraterrestrial presence has contacted or engaged any member of the human race," wrote space policy expert Phil Larson of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy.
    ''In addition, there is no credible information to suggest that any evidence is being hidden from the public's eye."

    The words, bullshit come to mind, but I am often better phrased than that. There is plenty proof (not evidence, but proof) that the government was hiding information from the public concerning the UFO phenomenon. One just has to look at the mountain of previously classified documents that have been released under the freedom act just to know, that the statement is complete and utter nonsense. The government, for many years, has been clearly interested in the subject; their main objective is to deny any interest in the study of UFO's. They tell you misinformation about whether there is any evidence for an advanced technology that many UFO's have.

    If anyone is to blame for the so-called ''conspiracy'' theory of UFO's, the government is. They are responsible for the many people who exist on Earth believing that it is possible aliens have visited us. Why all the cover-up's? Experience only tells us that people suppress the truth only when there is something to hide. What is it that the Military have been hiding for over 60 years that we cannot know?

    Imagine for a moment, what I personally think is happening. I believe that if aliens have came to Earth, there is a high chance the military will have attempted to back engineer an alien craft. But I bet largely it has been unsuccessful. Many UFO's, assuming they are of alien origin for the moment, will have a technology that we will want. As a matter of security, the very nature of how these objects work will be of highest importance. This is probably why is it such a highly classified subject. Wilbert Smith, a Canadian scientist who worked for the Department of Transport in the top secret UFO program, called Project Magnet, said in a previously secret memorandum that the 'subject of the UFO phenomenon was classified even higher than the H-Bomb'.

    This is quite a statement. Wilbert was more than a noteworthy investigator into the UFO phenomenon, but he claimed that he and his team came into possession of what was claimed to have been ''a broken piece of a saucer.'' To the amazement of his teams work, they could tell how long the object had been in space because on the surface it had embedded in it, micrometeorites. These claims, have never been backed by any evidence. Unfortunately, the documents concerning his work are yet to be declassified by the Department of Transport. Somewhere locked in it's vaults is the truth about the work that went on.

    Because the government appears to go to extraordinary lengths to deny the phenomenon, one has to begin to ask what it is that could be worth such secrecy. Surely then it isn't absurd to consider that they could be hiding a secret about aliens. It sure would be a secret worth hiding...

    ... Physicist Michio Kaku, believes just that. He believes that if aliens ever do visit planet Earth, that the government should keep it a secret. He says it would have drastic implications on our economy to our very lifestyles and beliefs. I am quite sure, there will be many serious investigators and believers of the UFO phenomenon who don't share his view and would rather the truth be free. Prof. Kaku also has made it clear with a conversation with physicist Jack Sarfatti that he does take the saucer phenomenon seriously.

    If there is a secret, there must be people who know about it. So I suppose a logical question would be, 'if others will know about the UFO program, then why haven't they said anything?'

    Well actually, there have been plenty people who have came forward admitting these things. We've had military personnel in history, of all ranks admitting to different aspects of the cover-ups. We've also had pilots coming forward admitting they have had orders to shoot down unidentified flying objects in our skies. There has been to date, no recorded public evidence which suggests there has been a successful shoot down. In fact, a famous Peru case I will talk about later involved a whole military base. A fighter sent into the sky, shot at it and the object remained undeterred. Normally anything in the path of such exploding artillery would rip anything to shreds. This UFO appeared to have some kind of shielding, or perhaps made of a material that is very, very strong? We can only speculate.

    So it isn't as if people 'within the circle' haven't came forward admitting that the government is lying about the UFO phenomenon. The evidence supporting this is large in body and vast in years.

    If the government really is hiding the truth about extraterrestrials, then there are important questions we need to ask and maybe try to answer later in this book, such questions will be ''if we are being visited, are they hostile?'' And ''where do they come from?'' And most important of all questions, ''what do they want?''


    Chapter Two

    The Invasion Theory

    There are some people who not only believe that UFO's are visiting us, but that they are hostile and they want to invade our planet. Though I can say there have been cases of hostile UFO encounters, there are no scientific reasons to actually believe aliens are here to conquer our planet.

    For starters, if they originated from elsewhere in this universe, it is unlikely our atmosphere would be breathable. The ratio of elements in the atmosphere will be different on their planet. ''They certainly wouldn't want our planet for resources,'' Doctor Michio Kaku said, in an interview on the implications of an alien invasion.

    ''There are plenty of uninhabited planets elsewhere with resources,'' he adds. He makes it clear that if an alien race was to appear in our skies, then they most likely could be anything up to a thousand or a billion years ahead of us and if so, their technology could seem inconceivable.

    Today, UFO's do display a technology which exceeds our own at times. Not only do some of them have impervious attributes, they at times can also display amazing technologies through their speed and sometimes their luminosity values they emit when high in the atmosphere, usually at night.

    When UFO's quite willingly fly in parts of the world, sometimes in crowded areas, brighter than any star in the sky and sometimes brighter than the moon, dancing in full view of the world, you get the impression, whoever it is, wants their presence to be known. It's ok saying you want aliens to land on the White House lawn when not only could they probably not speak our language, they could not breath our air and it's likely they know nothing of human politics either.

    Personally, I think the UFO's have done a remarkable job to get our attention. Not only do they show us they can do things we can't, but they have shown us at least in theory, they do not want any trouble. Though there are some cases where some hostility have been encountered and other cases where there has been hostility alleged, overall, most UFO encounters are benevolent. Some cases have proven to be dangerous in other ways however, such as near misses with commercial airliners.

    If one takes the evidence at hand, ignoring the origin of the crafts, they appear to be probing us, monitoring us similar perhaps to the way a human is temporarily fascinated by watching animals in a zoo. Only the trip they take to get to the zoo is much larger it's likely.

    If history is correct, then they have been in our skies (at least) a little over a hundred years. There are of course, claims of encounters before this, but it's hard to make light of them. I would say, if they can travel large distances, then if they ever had intentions of invading our planet, then they would have done so by now, you would have thought. But then this is where physics gets to correct.

    If an alien race travelled at relativistic speeds to get home, then something amazing happens. Many, many years will pass on Earth while those travelling home on some distant planet age only a few days. What we see today may be the beginning of something else in our future. Certainly, the idea of aliens discovering us and going home to get their armies were briefly popularized in the Hollywood blockbuster Independence Day, before our hero, Will Smith, blows up the enemy mothership.

    Though we cannot determine the exact intentions of the UFO's, hopefully some of the idea's mentioned give some picture to work with. So what about the intentions of the government?

    It appears the government will continue to keep the matter of the UFO subject completely secret until some day they can no longer deny it. I do not believe in the so-called ''Disclosure Day theories,'' the idea that given enough time, some speculate soon, the government will make an open announcement to the public on the reality and existence of aliens and UFO's. I just think this is wishful thinking. They can hide the main information, the real smoking gun in the name of National Security. No amount of freedom of information acts can by-pass the National Security of the country. They won't be in a hurry at all to admit this, because not only would it immediately prove them out to have been lying about the subject for many years, they will also have to admit there are technologies the world is not aware of.

    Back-engineering projects have been reported by some to have happened, but I don't get to thrilled hearing such testimony. But no doubt, if UFO's have been flying in our airspace, we must assume from time to time, crashes have happened. History has a tendency to repeat itself with such claims of crashes all over the world, so we must be open to this hypothesis.

    The governments main object should be to back-engineer and understand this technology first, because whoever would have such a technology would be unstoppable. No wonder then, it is the highest classified subject rated higher even, according to government scientist Wilbert Smith, than the H-Bomb itself.

    Of course, the government can't just suddenly display this technology to the public, because questions would be asked. It would have to be done discretely over a long period of time. If they did have such technology, knowing at least some new mechanisms, they may be added to state-of-the-art craft produced at top secret military test flight bases, such as Navada's infamous area 51 at Groom Lake. Because such a vast collection of the public now often venture close to the base and keep watchful eye's over it, it is possible the military may take some of the top secret projects to a new area where they will not be pryed upon.

    Intentions to test fly their own, new and improved air craft may have strong evidence in history. One such case is the Cash-Landum case, where a small family where travelling a long road in the woods, encountered a fleet of helicopters and what appeared to be a damaged, diamond-shaped UFO which was spurting or leaking some kind of orange flame from the lower half of the vehicle. Is it possible the military where test-flying something?

    Before you dismiss the claim in your head as a fabricated story by a bunch of people who wanted some fame, there are some curious events which unfolded the following weeks. The whole family appeared to have advanced radiation poisoning, a child who was present during the incident, got severe 'sun burns'. His name was Colby Landum and he was with his grandmother, Vickie Landum. Driving the car was Betty Cash, it was this lady who actually recieved the worst radiation burns.

    According to her doctor, Cash couldn't walk, patches of her hair and skin fell off with many large painful blisters. Though her condition wasn't much better, she was released after 12 days. She later found herself returning to hospital for another 15 days, which gives some idea of the severity of what she experienced physically.

    Lt. Col. George Sarran of the Dep. of the Army Inspector General couldn't find any evidence that the witnesses had exaggerated the truth and found them to be completely reliable.

    Another case of a possible military test flight of a UFO happened in Westall, Australia. A saucer shaped UFO flew over a public school, with a large percentage of the school being witness to it. Soon in the heat of event, the military arrived at the scene. Not only do they confiscate valuable evidence, such as a camera which allegedly took a picture of the object by one of the teachers, but they also threaten secrecy on the students, warning them of ridicule if they ever spoke about the subject.

    While the UFO could have been a military experiment, it doesn't explain why they flew it in open view of the public like this to only make a big fuss about keeping quiet over the situation. And even though air planes where reported in the area at the same time of the UFO's, it is hard to tell if they where chasing the UFO in a dogfight, or, they where escorting it. But again, escorting it in the open like this would be just asking for trouble, I would expect the military wouldn't be so foolish to cause themselves extra work like that.

    A now famous Guy Hottel Memorandum for the FBI director clearly states that he investigated an informer connected to the Air Force informer told him of a saucer retrieval operation in New Mexico. While there is no evidence to suggest that this is in reference to the Roswell Incident, it has been suggested. The memo says that alien bodies had been retrieved from the crash site. Is there any truth in the statement? The FBI says there no reason to think that the informer can be trusted, which is a fair point if it wasn't for the fact that the informers name had been censored, a common feature of declassified documents released by the FBI or even the CIA.

    Of course, I mentioned earlier about Aurora case, we know of the Roswell alleged crash, so even if one of these incidents where actually true, the military at one point should have got their hands on this technology. They will know whether the technology is alien or not. As far as we can tell, as outsiders, the testimony of countless UFO sightings seem to speak for themselves in many cases.

    As we come to wrap this chapter up, whatever the motives of aliens are, we can be sure the motives of the government are far more sinister. If we where visited by an alien race, Michio Kaku points out, if they really are so advanced as to be able to travel great distances in space and time, it is likely they will not be interested in war - they will have sorted out their racial differences. Though, we should be mindful about the future and not completely rule out the notion even though it seems unlikely.



    Chapter Four
    The Consensus...
    Things that are usually got wrong.



    In some very intense debates over the years, I see a pattern repeated by sceptics. Some sceptics say there is no evidence for UFO's, I have had to correct them on quite a number of times that there is plenty evidence for UFO's. What the sceptic is looking for, isn't evidence. They are looking for proof. There are unique differences between the two.

    Evidence is something you use to try and prove something. If you have enough evidence, then you have enough proof. Question is, is whether we have enough proof that aliens exist? The answer is no, we don't have the smoking gun proof yet that aliens are responsible for some UFO sightings. There is tantalizing evidence to support the claim however.

    Often, if a sceptic fails to provide better arguments that the believer, then the sceptic will often resort to name-calling, despite if you offer plenty evidence for them to chew over. You are often called insane, or woo woo for simply thinking that aliens are a possible answer for what is being seen in our skies. Not only are top scientists telling it is probable, but if they haven't visited us yet, then they will eventually. Indeed, Kaku has been known for saying ''it isn't a matter of if, it is a matter of when.''

    Interestingly, there doesn't appear to be a consensus other than the one's that have been stamp approved by the government. Any so-called ''serious'' investigations that the government has conducted on UFO's have been set up with the sole intention of quashing the UFO phenomenon in what was to appear as an objective investigation.

    We now know, even confirmed by the scientific advisor Dr. J. Allen Hynek for Blue Book that it was his duty to debunk the UFO phenomenon. The reason why was because the original project called Sign which predated his Blue Book project determined aliens where the likely cause of the phenomenon. The military wasn't having this and so they immediately closed down project Sign, replaced it with project Grudge and then the notorious project Blue Book. Even though Dr. Hynek was originally a stern skeptic, he said over the years his opinion on the matter changed. He finally openly admitted once Blue Book had been shut down, publically that he was in fact a believer that some UFO events really indicated more than the government was admitting and said the ET hypothesis was probably correct.

    The view of scientists have been suppressed over the years, or some of them have been crafted from the soil of Blue Book, thinking that the scientific consensus supported UFO's as being nothing but a fantasy. The truth is, even as early as the 1950's the consensus it appears of scientists was pro-extraterrestrial.

    Edward J. Ruppelt, director of the USAF Project Blue Book UFO study visited Los Alamos Lab in 1952 (the same year as the major UFO event in Washington DC.). The scientists at the lab had been witness to an on-going phenomenon during that time which they called Green Fireballs.

    Today, Green Fireballs are what we would call ''orb UFO's,'' which have proven to come in array of different colours. During a period of years from early 1940's into early 50's, a number of military establishments and scientific establishments noticed that these UFO's where taking some considerable interest in them. At least, this was the consensus of people at the time.

    Ruppelt talked with the scientists at Los Alamos concerning what they believed they saw. None of them believed they had a conventional explanation, ie. meteors, Earth-made craft. Instead, the scientists speculated that they were extraterrestrial probes "projected into our atmosphere from a 'spaceship' hovering several hundred miles above the earth." Ruppelt commented, "Two years ago I would have been amazed to hear a group of reputable scientists make such a startling statement. Now, however, I took it as a matter of course. I'd heard the same type of statement many times before from equally qualified groups."

    Amazing isn't it. In face of what sceptics believe, here we have one of the highest labs in America confirming that they believed what they saw were extratterestrial probes. These are totally sane, intelligent men who where far from delusional.

    Today, more scientists are getting less afraid to voice their opinion on such matters. If Hawking can talk about the possibility of aliens visiting us, then we really need to start taking the subject seriously. Calling believers out to be insane, crazy and whatnot, is just misinforming yourself and whoever is listening. There is more evidence weighed in the way of the believer than there is for the sceptic, which is probably why sceptics show an ugly nature to their ability to debate such subjects.

    So what is the consensus today concerning alien life and whether the government is hiding more than they are admitting?

    I bet the consensus is still high. If a proper investigation went into scientists who could not be named, I bet the majority of them will believe there is more to the story than what is being said. If there isn't, we need to seriously understand how much influence the government has on the propaganda they have spread over the last 60 years concerning the denial of UFO's in face of the conflicting mountain of evidence.

    But if we have top scientists today admitting this could all be real, then it's probably more likely more scientists will be quietly believing something. Interestingly, it is estimated that almost 50% of Americans, some estimates claim more, believe their government is hiding something about UFO's. This unfortunately doesn't tell us much, because America is largely paranoid about their government anyway, from citing ridiculous theories about mass de-population and the so-called ''chemtrails,'' so perhaps you might expect many Americans to jump on the UFO conspiracy bandwagon as well.

    As I have said before however, calling the UFO phenomenon a conspiracy theory doesn't give it total justice because unlike many conspiracy theories, this one actually has a lot of the way in evidence. Even physical evidence in the form of radar. In a discussion with a sceptic, someone said to me that radar evidence wasn't physical evidence. On the contrary, radar evidence is excellent physical evidence and even Dr. Hynek of Blue Book treated it as such.

    If the population of America is the consensus, then clearly the consensus is divided. However, if the scientific mainstream is the consensus, then who do we trust? If the scientific consensus is based on Blue Books investigations and conclusions, then clearly we cannot trust it because the results where forged even before the investigation started. If top scientists like Hawking, Kaku and others are to be taken seriously, then the real consensus seems to be telling us it is not only possible but highly likely to happen sometime in our future if it hasn't happened already.

    According to Ruppelt, scientists where not always like this. However, clear by what he is saying, by the 1952 Los Alamos interview with the scientists, that it was a growing consensus among very trustworthy people about their contentions on what they saw being extraterrestrial. Ruppelt was borne into a world of scientific scepticism which was sooner or later being conditioned out of him by a new growing trend of scientific minds.

    Though this undeniably happened, still large portions of the public must have remained dogmatically ignorant. Hence why the general consensus of the public treated people of all ranges of life purporting to a UFO encounter with ridicule and shame. This will be a major factor for years to come why many people never came forward with their experiences only until recent times.

    Scepticism, should be expect from all countries concerning the UFO phenomenon, but while the public remained sceptic, someone in the high offices knew the truth. Here is a new question, 'how many countries knew of the UFO phenomenon?'

    It's likely the greater part of governments all over the world know about UFO's. This isn't meant to mean they are all in some kind of united shadow government, not at all. The cold war hasn't ended, it continued in one way or another, it just got more advanced as the years progressed. The war for superiority concerning technology has always been a subject of great importance, so imagine if something of great technological superiority was in our skies and we couldn't identify what it was. The Soviets probably blamed America and no doubt a lot of thinking at the time concerning the American military was the fear they were actually Soviet spy planes.


    During the Cold War in 1961, about 50 UFO's were flying south from Russia across Europe and the Supreme Allied Commander was naturally very concerned about unidentified flying objects pervading their airspace with impunity. At the point of pressing the panic button, the objects turned round and flew back to the towards the North Pole direction. You can imagine, all sorts of accusations at this time where being thrown about as to where the objects came from. This was in fact the same year the Canadian government cancelled their top secret project to develop a flying saucer.

    Named the Avrocar, it was a traditional saucer shaped craft that would use a form of propulsion called the Coandă effect. Needless to say, it barely got off the ground.

    This gives us an idea that whatever was in our skies, saucers doesn't seem to be an excellent method of flying, history for us has proven this. Of course, this doesn't rule out saucers being able to fly; it might just be a matter of the propulsion system. Though since 1961, we are still using our primitive rocket powered methods of flying in the air, we don't seem to have made much progress in the way of new propulsion systems which are efficient.

    Remember, in 1961 America was no stranger to UFO encounters. It was only near enough a decade before several UFO's flew over the White House. Even then, America's best wasn't able to catch up with them. So who, in a realistic argument had the technology to fly these things at the speeds they did?

    There is no answer, no consensus for this question. The reason why no military official can answer these questions is because the technology it warrants is so advanced than anything we had seen, it seemed improbable that any other country was responsible. Even though saucer designs had been considered for aircraft during the Second World War, the Germans never actually got around to making any as far as we know.

    The American military must have been left with some difficult questions concerning the UFO phenomenon, unless they already knew about their origins, which must be considered since they were no stranger to their activities.

    As we wrap finally this chapter up, I would like to make sure, we understand what we have covered. It appears, that there is no consensus scientifically-speaking which the government has orchestrated which can be believed. There seems to be plenty evidence, that many respectable scientists actually confirm the liklihood of UFO's actually being alien in origin. If a true objective consensus today was taken, we'd find among those scientists Stephen Hawking and Michio Kaku, including a range of other scientists who I haven't mentioned in this book, such as Nuclear Physicist Stanton Friedman who, is an avid believer in a cover-up. There was also the late Wilbert Smith, who worked as a scientist for the Canadian government. Let's end this chapter with some famous quotes by scientist

    "The least improbable explanation is that these things are artificial and controlled. . .my opinion for some time has been that they have an extraterrestrial origin."
    -Dr. Maurice Biot, aerodynamicist and mathematical physicist.

    Werner Von Braun was a rocket scientist developed Nazi Germany's V2 rocket and later, the American space program.
    "We find ourselves faced by powers which are far stronger than we had hitherto assumed, and whose base is at present unknown to us. More I cannot say at present. We are now engaged in entering into closer contact with those powers, and in six or nine months time it may be possible to speak with some precision on the matter." --This comment comes from "News Europa" Jan. 1959 and refers to mysterious events during the re-entry phase of the Juno 2 rocket during a test flight.
    "...it is as impossible to confirm them (UFOs) in the present as it will be to deny them in the future." --In a comment to Nasa scientist, Clark McClelland

    "What I found [in doing research for the book Project Delta] was compelling evidence to claim that most of these aerial objects far exceeded the terrestrial technology of the era in which they were seen. I was forced to conclude that there is a great likelihood that Earth is being visited by highly advanced aerospace vehicles under highly 'intelligent' control indeed."
    -Dr. Richard F. Haines, retired NASA senior research scientist at Ames Research Center and the Research Institute for Advanced Computer Science where he worked on the International Space Station.--From the preface of his book, CE-5, 1998.


    "I was there at [Project] Bluebook and I know the job they had. They were told not to excite the public, not to rock the boat... Whenever a case happened that they coud explain--which was quite a few--they made a point of that, and let that out to the media. . .Cases that were very difficult to explain, they would jump handsprings to keep the media away from them. They had a job to do, rightfully or wrongfully, to keep the public from getting excited."
    -Dr. J. Allen Hynek


    "UFO sightings are now so common, the military doesn't have time to worry about them. . .when a UFO appears, they simply ignore it. . .Unconventional targets are ignored because apparently we are only interested in Russian targets, possibly enemy targets. Something that hovers in the air, then shoots off at 5,000 miles per hour, doesn't interest us, because it can't be the enemy. UFOs are picked up by ground and air radar, and they have been photographed by gun camera all along. There are so many UFOs in the sky that the Air Force has had to employ special radar networks to screen them out."
    -Lee Katchen, NASA atmospheric physicist in an announcement on June 7, 1968 in which he stated that he believed, based on his examination of 7,000 reports, that UFOs have an extraterrestrial origin.

    "The trick would be, I think, to describe the project so that, to the public, it woud appear a totally objective study but, to the scientific community, would present the image of a group of non-believers trying their best to be objective, but having an almost zero expectation of finding a saucer."
    -Robert J. Low, project coordinator of the Colorado University UFO Project
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2014
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  3. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    I cannot believe they did not extend your ban for making a sockpuppet. The only answer is that the aliens must have forced the moderators to let you post more nonsense.
     
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  5. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    It's really a shame, almost criminal, to see someone waste SO much of their life on something like this. Sad!
     
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  7. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    I hope you at least learned something here and try to incorporate some of what you learned into your book. For example, when you go to edit it, make sure to start using the term "UFO" correctly. If you don't, you may confuse and irritate your audience.

    Also, when citing famous people, it is best to use actual quotes and make sure the spirit of what they said is accurate. You don't really want to irritate them either.

    In other words, don't lie to or otherwise attempt to deceive your readers.

    Beyond that, good luck!
     
  8. siledre Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    487
    I've never found the masses to be a good source of truth, if you don't know why, stop and take a harder look at the world, individually we're capable of great lucidity but in the fast paced modern world and the growing phenomena of social media and everyone getting their 15 minutes of fame, there is a mass pandemic of hysteria going on right now and everyone wants in on it on a conscious and subconscious level. UFO sightings I would have to say is not as popular as the ones that follow it think it is, couple that with the media controlled misinformation and catering to incorrectly identifying that UFO=aliens has confused those who only react to stimuli. Personally, I'm very open minded but don't see it, I've seen a UFO once, and that's all it was, an unidentified flying object, I have my suspicions what it was but if I did actually know then I wouldn't need to call it a UFO. I've seen people give you a lot of feedback that is sound, on the other hand you have a very strong belief in this and there is nothing wrong with that but I think you need a little more skepticism to really sell it in book form, you are actually emotionally compromised by your own inability to try to fathom your encounters. it's hard to say who is right or wrong but when it comes to science, the birth of a new idea takes a lot of time and some pain which I think is good, if it can come through the testing period and there is actual proof of it, then eventually it will become accepted. As for what I believe, I think you're barking up a tree, but not in a bad way, just in a misguided way. even if aliens do exist, I would have to argue that they are probably as earth bound as we are, in fact, maybe we are the most sentient species in creation and we will become the martians other worlds think they are seeing if we ever get off this planet.
     
  9. Trapped Banned Banned

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    That is a very nice thing to say, thank you. I have based (I got it the wrong) I think it is the forth chapter that was influenced during my talks. My book is there to help sceptics.

    If I ever refer to UFO's as alien, I will make sure i mention this. When I speculate something in the book, I make this known.

    My time here is coming to an end, if there is anything in this work you disagree with, just say so. There is a lot of evidence and the material I am leaving here at this site is hopefully an eye-raiser that I am not insane, or incapable of talking about this subject. I understand to some the UFO phenomenon is hard to believe but hopefully I have changed a mindset that it is impossible such things can happen.
     
  10. Trapped Banned Banned

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    What?

    I can tell you a large amount of people, in official positions, are not wanting fame. In fact, a great deal of UFO sightings are in fact made by people in respectable positions. Whatever the social media status is, there is arguably not enough of it. We need more people coming forth with their evidence.
     
  11. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,534
    True [as stated in the early part of your post] the Universe is big, but the 93 billion L/years wide that you mention, only applies to the OBSERVABLE Universe.
    And just to reiterate my take on the facts of the situation, including all the evidence associated with it.
    The waters of the subject of UFO sightings are somewhat muddied due to the overwhelming attraction it has for the nutters/conspiracy pushers in our society. The same reason why those same nutters/conspiracy pushers are attracted to forums such as this....It is their only outlet.
    The vast majority of sightings have been shown to be a variety of many causes, all terrestrial in nature, and sometimes caused by weather phenomena.
    The small number of UFO sightings that the experts cannot explain, stand as unexplained....It's as simple as that. There has never been any conclusive evidence to show any sightings were Alien intelligence in nature.
    Contact between any intelligent species in our Universe may happen one day, but we/they first must overcome the tyranny of time and distance.
     
  12. Trapped Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,058
    I also said the observable universe, could be infinite.

    The observable universe still allows a large proportion of it to be inhabitable. When you take all the statistics I spoke of you still are left with a large number of planets which should have some form of life, intelligent or not.

    All theories of life, push nutters in society to talk about subjects they know little about outside of their paranoia. A good investigator knows how to sort the wheat from the chaff. It's like being able to know, a youtubes finest photoshop album, to a genuine video. There are cranks in all walks of life, the UFO phenomenon is not devoid them, I will admit.

    At the same time, they do none of us favours.
     
  13. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,534
    I'm one that would dearly love for eventual evidence to show conclusively that ETL does exist, somewhere, sometime, and other then being rather satisfied if that evidence did come to light, I would not be too surprised.
     
  14. Trapped Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,058
    The greatest journey, to the road of belief, I have learned, doesn't happen publically.

    I was lucky, many years ago to see a UFO event for my own eyes, knowing fine well it was nothing conventional. I know, you must dislike me for coming here promoting the UFO phenomenon as having an ET explanation, but I have no alternatives. The UFO phenomenon is vast in body.
     
  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,534


    I don't dislike you or your claims that some UFO sightings are Alien in nature.
    I believe quite strongly and convincingly that we are not alone.
    If we were alone, it would raise far more questions than if life was indeed common throughout the Universe.
    All I have ever said, is that some of the examples you have raised have had me thinking......and while I have not dismissed any possibility out of hand, we still do not have convincing evidence to show they are Alien in nature.
    In that respect, I see them as unexplained.
     
  16. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,454
    So... if it is "True" that "the OBSERVABLE Universe'' is "93 billion L/years wide".
    And...if it is also "True" that "the OBSERVABLE Universe'', and the UNOBSERVABLE Universe, began expanding about 14 Billion years ago, from a single point.
    Then would logic not dictate that it also be "True" that nature has no problem with overcoming "the tyranny of time and distance"?

    BTW, paddoboy, how do you know, for a fact, that "Contact between any intelligent species in our Universe may happen one day"?

    How, paddoboy, do you know, for a fact, that "Contact between any intelligent species in our Universe" has not already happened?

    The same "tyranny of time and distance", as you put it, also allows for an awful lot of events to occur over an awful lot of time in an awful lot of space!
     
  17. Trapped Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,058
    Evolutionary-speaking yes. Given enough time, according to the statistics, there could be anything up to a thousand and maybe more intelligent life-species in the universe.

    Paddoboy never spoke about intelligent communication, but there is a lot of space as you mention and too much time to not consider enough lifeforms which reach our intelligence. If we take the statistics seriously, life will not only exist on other planets, but it is likely within 8 billion years that life has reached our level of intelligence. Personally, I would say a handful have reached that in our galaxy alone. Even a handful of seven can reach 35,000,000,000 civilizations in this universe. How many times do you need to reduce the figure to reach an appropriate number?
     
  18. Trapped Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,058
    I am glad it has had you thinking. I am not alone in this.
     
  19. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,534


    As usual your attention to detail is noted, though irrelevant.

    You remind me of that old saying öf "not being able to see the forest for the trees" or is that the woods for the trees?
    I'll let you decide.
     
  20. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,534

    Along with the stuff of life being everywhere we look, I say that is a near certainty.
    As I have mentioned, if we are alone, far many more questions must be answered. And wouldn't our God botherer friends love that scenario!





    Agreed, but also remembering that the sheer vastness of space and distances between galaxies, stars and even planets, make contact difficult to say the least, and only possibly achievable by a highly advanced civilisation.

    But given time, yep, it will happen one day.

    All we as a species need to do, is survive our own follies, and hope that we will survive any future cosmological catastrophe.
     
  21. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,454
    Scientific Methodology requires the utmost "attention to detail", and is very relevant to this Thread.

    Your own lackadaisical and continued "(in)attention to detail" is always noticed and is NOT "irrelevant".


    For instance, paddoboy, your own INATTENTION TO DETAIL in what you Posted, that I quoted ^^above^^...is an excellent example of your own irrelevance.

    What might be considered, by most people, to be "relevant", would be paddoboy actually answering questions posed to paddoboy.

    But, "as usual", paddoboy, you choose to remain "irrelevant" by ignoring direct questions - and instead remain steadfast in your preferred Trolling...err...Posting etiquette, or is that lack of Trolling...err...Posting etiquette?

    Hey, I know what I'll do. I'll apply your own version of "Scientific Methodology" to solve this dilemma!

    Hence, paddoboy, "I'll let you decide".


    BTW, I refused to accept the original $100.00, and the additional $100.00 that I won on the "paddoboy wager" after both parties to the wager and all the parties aware of it, agreed that it was nothing more than me taking advantage of the fact that I had been exposed to more of paddoboys exploits on this Forum.
    Ergo, by applying scientific methodology to the established Reality, it was not a wager at all! It was an inescapable foregone conclusion!
     
  22. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,534




    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    I'll let the forum decide about who or what is irrelevant, and your confused wishy washy posts will decide that.
    Your delusional qualities as usual are always noted.


    I was hoping the new year would improve your quality of life...It appears I am wrong on that score.
     
  23. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,454
    So...paddoboy, you seem to appear somewhat unsure as to whether you will "let the forum decide about who or what is irrelevant" or if my, alleged by you, "confused wishy washy posts will decide that".
    BTW, "wishy washy", by definition is : "not having or showing strong ideas or beliefs about something : weak and not able or not willing to act", "lacking in character or determination : ineffectual" - from : http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wishy-washy

    So, paddoboy, by being "weak and not able or not willing to act" and answer my Direct Questions Posed to You...by definition, are you being "wishy washy"?

    As are your own, as usual, esteemed Trolling...err...Posting "qualities" or etiquette!

    Regardless of what you were "hoping", your "perception" of my "quality of life", does not just "appear wrong"!

    It is, in Point of Fact, completely, utterly and miserably wrong, period!

    But hey, paddoboy, I do not expect that any Realistic Facts should ever be truthfully considered by you, prior to your usual Trolling...err...Posting!

    So...again..., paddoboy, "I'll let you decide".
     

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