Muslim Experience in America

Discussion in 'Politics' started by DiamondHearts, Aug 6, 2008.

  1. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    For me, the highlight of the US presidential elections were "Is Obama a Muslim" and then his victory.
     
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  3. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Having rubbed shoulders with South Asian Muslims studying in the US, I'm told they feel a polite but ambiguous distance. College is not the real world, and I would like to know what the trend is in US tolerance from the perspective of ostensible (culturally conspicuous) Muslims living in other US contexts. I don't think gauging this needs confining to the experiences of Muslims in the USA- most anyone with brown skin and an atypical accent is part of the demographic by association. "Foreign" Buddhists, Hindus, etc also experience the leading edge of the USAmerican world view.

    I'm interested in these perspectives because I consider it a meaningful indicator of how we will collectively react to the events ahead.
     
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  5. copernicus66 Banned Banned

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    Funny how those 'murderers' are secular when you're arguing with an atheist, and Christian when you are arguing with a Christian. Make up your mind.

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  7. copernicus66 Banned Banned

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    The attitudes S.A.M, Challenger and you hold in regards to the West are the reason why there is a tendency of Westerners to hold Muslims at arms length. Many of my housemates used to be Malay Muslim, and despite being an incredibly polite people, would let their resentment of the West and Jews slip occasionally. This never bothered me in the slightest, since it was a fair price to pay for housemates who kept quiet and cleaned up after themselves, and I just chalked it down to culture clash.

    I've also had the misfortune of meeting a 'gangsta' Muslim from the U.K, and hoo boy, future terrorist in the making. Not only did he hate the West with a passion, he also shared a similar hatred for Muslim sects that he didn't consider 'proper Muslims' (Wahhibism?). I always find it strange how the most anti-Western and extreme Muslims are actually living in the West that they claim to despise *cough* S.A.M *cough*.

    The fact is that Muslims are being conditioned to distrust the West, and their prejudice tends to shine through when they live within a Western country. So naturally Westerners are going to recoil, if you come at me unpleasantly, I'm going to raise my defenses. I mean, seriously, if you don't like it here, fuck off back to your own country or have the balls to invade us. It's really shitty that we accomodate you and then you have the nerve to bitch about the big bad West.

    Wearing the veil doesn't help either. In a Western culture, covering the face is considered to be dehumanising. People who wear masks are usually those who don't want their identity revealed (insurgents, burglars). It's like wearing a mini-skirt in Saudi Arabia.

    Quite simply, immigrants need to make an effort to assimilate, at least partially, within their adopted homeland. If they don't want to, then they should leave or declare war and establish their own civilization on top of the conquered one. But they certainly shouldn't expect to be treated like honoured guests while snidely criticising their collective hosts.
     
  8. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    they would most likely be viewed as "weird " or "strange".
    the amish is a typical example of what i mean.
    this applies to almost every religious group that has a dress code.
     
  9. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Copernicus66: The fact is that Muslims are being conditioned to distrust the West, and their prejudice tends to shine through when they live within a Western country. So naturally Westerners are going to recoil, if you come at me unpleasantly, I'm going to raise my defenses. I mean, seriously, if you don't like it here, fuck off back to your own country or have the balls to invade us. It's really shitty that we accomodate you and then you have the nerve to bitch about the big bad West.

    I think its the other way around, the Western world is being 'conditioned' to distrust and fear Muslims. Remember when the family which included three children were asked to leave AirTran on a domestic flight simply because they were discussing where was the safest place to sit on the plane? Even after the FBI cleared them the airline refused to honor their ticket. Being Muslim or rather dressing in a hajib or a burkha is enough to make the average American uncomfortable. You say wearing the veil doesn't help but when I boarded a flight on Ethiad Airlines on the 24th to return to the States from UAE there was a family where the daughter wore her hajib and the mother wore a full burkha. When we arrived at JFK airport in NY the wife had REMOVED her burkha, its nonsense to assume that muslims are not aware of the western prejudice towards this particular traditional style. I agree with Lee Kwan Yew when he told Charlie Rose that when muslims look at the biased regard towards the palestinian-israeli situation they feel attacked, when they look at Chechnya, afghanistan and Iraq they feel attacked, when they look at muslim deaths in the Balkans or the Thai struggle in Southern Thailand they feel attacked. They feel attacked because they are being attacked and marginalized. Truth is there is more negative assumptions and stereotypes generated in the West towards muslims. We ignore the fact that this is a broad religion that crosses the globe and speaks different languages and where there are different interpretations of their religion, we ignore their diversity and treat them with condescension (especially in films).

    How about that fictitious book 'Forbidden Love' written by an American-Jordanian con-artist? The book on honor killings was published as non-fiction by Random House and sold over 200,000 copies around the world. It was touted as truth, painting a picture of jordanian women living in cultural prison, with ridiculous claims like Jordan has 5,000 honor killings each year and are forced to wear the hajib and all sorts of nonsense. When Jordanian women, mostly scholars and journalists discredited the book as sheer insulting bullshit they were ignored, Random House ignored them. It was only when an Australian journalist dug deeper was it discovered that not only was it all made up rubbish but that the author was American, had never lived in Jordan and was wanted by the FBI (too funny!). Random House had to eat crow and take the book off the market. People believed the author because it enhanced the already distorted image we have of these people. The West constantly dismisses the voice and opinions of Muslim people, we don't want to hear them because it would disturb the neat little western stereotypes that have been built over the years. I don't blame any muslim for getting their back up. Just because your paranoid doesn't mean there's no one out to get you.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2009
  10. copernicus66 Banned Banned

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    Which is why the West continues to allow them into their countries? Which is why Western countries are *arresting* anyone who dares speak out against the Islamic threat under the pretext of 'hate speech'?

    What you describe is one incident where a company over-reacted, and later apologised. Remember when two planes were driven into government buildings, leading to the death of thousands of American citizens? Remember the bombings in Madrid and London? Remember the riots and death threats over cartoons?

    Your attempt to extrapolate the behaviour of an overly cautious individual to the whole Western population is absurd.

    Maybe they are aware, but just don't care. Because I see Muslims wearing the veil every work day, with my own eyes.

    Yes, I've noticed that Muslims love to play the victim.

    No. They feel attacked and marginalised because they come from a culture which brainwashes them into feeling that way. Even when they are treated as citizens in their adopted homeland, some still cry 'Poor me!'.

    And those assumptions aren't entirely inaccurate, because Muslims do have a tendency to resent the West.

    Speak for yourself, you presumptious child. The rest of your post is just inane ranting. *yawn*
     
  11. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Are you seriously denying that Americans and their allies have been torturing and killing Muslims?
     
  12. Bells Staff Member

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    Pish. Don't you know it's good when we do it? Geez Sam, where have you been? When we do the bombing, torturing and killing, it's really in the name of good.

    /Takes delusion pill..

    Yeah.. we do it and we're better for it. We're better than Muslims because we're the West *Cheer*.. We don't kill and torture. We ermmm..

    /Takes second dose..

    We kill because we need to kill Muslims. And we don't torture. Pfft.. waterboarding and beatings aren't torture. Why back in my day we did all that for fun!

    West = good.. Muslims = bad..

    Yeah.. those pills are working great..

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  13. copernicus66 Banned Banned

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    So?
     
  14. copernicus66 Banned Banned

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    Hasn't S.A.M already told you, Bells? When the Muslims bomb, torture and kill, it's really in the name of good! Why, those poor dears are oppressed by the ebil ebil U S of A! I mean, there were no suicide bombers prior to the West rearing it's ugly head!
     
  15. Bells Staff Member

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    oke:

    Sarcasm just floats right by you, doesn't it?
     
  16. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Copernicus66:Which is why the West continues to allow them into their countries?

    The West has no reason to deny muslims entry. I never heard of a Westener being denied entry into Pakistan, Syria, Lybia, Lebanon or any other Muslim country.

    Cop66: Which is why Western countries are *arresting* anyone who dares speak out against the Islamic threat under the pretext of 'hate speech'?

    I have never heard of anyone being arrested in the West for speaking out against Islam. If you know of any such cases please clue me.

    Cop66: What you describe is one incident where a company over-reacted, and later apologised.

    Yes they did but I think they should have been sued for profiling. Its like denying an african-american entry into a store because you think they are poor and you fear they will steal something.

    Cop66: Remember when two planes were driven into government buildings, leading to the death of thousands of American citizens?

    Yes I do and as well they should, but does that mean every single muslim is to blame for the twin towers? If you take that argument to its logical conclusion it would be fair to say that muslims should fear americans since the death toll in Iraq according to the Washington Post in March 2003 had reached 655,000. According to David Brown "Of the total 655,000 estimated "excess deaths," 601,000 resulted from violence and the rest from disease and other causes, according to the study. This is about 500 unexpected violent deaths per day throughout the country." Guess what that death toll is now....

    He also adds "The surveyors said they found a steady increase in mortality since the invasion, with a steeper rise in the last year that appears to reflect a worsening of violence as reported by the U.S. military, the news media and civilian groups. In the year ending in June, the team calculated Iraq's mortality rate to be roughly four times what it was the year before the war."
    David Brown
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Wednesday, October 11, 2006; Page A12

    It seems to me that considering the men on those planes were mostly Saudi, does it make sense to you that the U.S then had the right to go around bombing muslims in other nations willy-nilly.

    Cop66: Remember the bombings in Madrid and London?

    Yes I do and thank goodness they were not so foolish as to use that as an excuse to mistreat ALL OR ANY muslim willy-nilly.

    Cop66: Remember the riots and death threats over cartoons?

    Yes I do. Am I to assume that because of slavery and jim crow that all white people everywhere are rabid barbarians? Did you think all Catholics from Northern Ireland were IRA? Did the british bomb the shit out of the nation because there were repeated bombings all over England?

    Cop66: Your attempt to extrapolate the behaviour of an overly cautious individual to the whole Western population is absurd.

    Its just as ridiculous to stereotype a religion because of a few crazy zealots. I'm surprised you forgot to mention Mumbai.

    Copo66:Maybe they are aware, but just don't care. Because I see Muslims wearing the veil every work day, with my own eyes.

    So do I all over the world I just don't happen to find it threatening...anymore than I would the sari.

    Cop66:Yes, I've noticed that Muslims love to play the victim.

    Lee Kwan Yew is Chinese and from Singapore.

    Cop66:And those assumptions aren't entirely inaccurate, because Muslims do have a tendency to resent the West.

    And the West has the tendency to demonize Islam.

    Cop66: ”

    Speak for yourself, you presumptious child. The rest of your post is just inane ranting. *yawn*

    That's it? Dismiss me as a child? Now that is truly mature of you my wee pet.
     
  17. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    "Lee Kwan Yew is Chinese and from Singapore"

    LOL
     
  18. Bells Staff Member

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    There are Muslims in Singapore as well.

    /Squints eyes suspiciously..

    They're invading you know..

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  19. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    /invades Australia with a veil
     
  20. copernicus66 Banned Banned

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    What's funny is that one of my Malay Muslim housemates once said "Gee, you have a lot of *Chinese* here in Australia. Aren't you all a little worried about that?!"
     
  21. Bells Staff Member

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    Yep. And remember the Asian Invasion fear that gripped us in the 80's? Ah Bruce Ruxton was huge back then..

    First it was the "Wog invasion".. Then it was the "Asian Invasion"... Now it's the "Muslim invasion". What will be next? Africa? America's? When we go through those, we'll have come full circle.

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  22. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Sure, didn't you know, it's the latest craze. You can buy them by the dozen at WalMart. I tortured and killed a six pack of Muslims during a BBQ yesterday.
     
  23. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    Did you BB-Q the ribs, I have a dino- mite BB-Q recipe for you if you care to try it, use the short ribs.

    It taste just like pork ribs.
     

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