Muslim cultural center near 9/11 site causes distress

I modified my post

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we don't HAVE to have them fight in a bloody arena of death /interfaith center for our amusement - we could simply vote them out ala The USA's got Religion reality TV style

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Read the article you'll find the opinion of those who live in the area and those who lost loved ones in 9/11 stating the reasons behind their resistance to the center. Its mostly has to do with the symbolic nature of having it in that location more than that its a muslim center itself. Like I said if it had been moved two or three blocks over no one would even hear about it.

 

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ouch!!!

 

This is a fallacy (distributional or comparative, I guess). It would be more pertinent to ask: Are similar calls being made at the Federal Building bombed by Timothy McVeigh? I would hope that there are not; and anyone doing so, IMHO, ought to be shot for outright hubris.

Again: building churches right on the site of the crime? I would bloody hope not, and for the same reason as expressed in this thread: puerile, cynical, triumphalism.

Quite: probably another reason the mosque is planned there (see the history of the planners; an interesting story).

 

Actually, I'm certain there would be outcry from atheists and agnostics, and with good reason, if Christian terrorists crashed planes into the towers for reasons of Christian belief or theology. My previous examples illustrated the kind of discordant reasoning that would be behind such a move. There does indeed appear to be some kind of religious monument there:

- but it isn't the same situation: First, St. Joseph's was an historical landmark. Second, if I were being uncharitable, I'd add: Tim McVeigh's religion seems to be in some question, whatever he might have said his 'core beliefs' were:

But lastly and most importantly: what is the reason for the mosque going there? What are the motivations? I've alluded to the connections of some of the supporters and organizers previously; they don't inspire confidence. Who, for example, will control the purse-strings? The imam behind it claims on the one hand (to Americans) it will be financed by American donations. On the other (to Arab audiences) he asserts that the Saudis will pay. Why the duplicity? The families of the victims of 9/11 think that it will turn into another Hyde Park or Finnsbury, and they're probably right to do so. If peace and reconciliation are the actual objective, why not a memorial (as at the Murrah Building in Oklahoma) rather than a mosque? :shrug:

 

The other thing about all this is the issue of sensitivity: surely, with so many families of the victims offended for the reasons outlined above, it would be more sensitive to place the mosque elsewhere?

I saw some highlights from the meeting that the owners had; not much "community say", and rather more "this is what's going to happen". I recall some idoit pronouncing that the owners didn't even have to seek permission, and that the meeting was just a courtesy. The pretense of community input, apparently. And you must understand that there is a vast difference between building a monument (and rebuilding a church, assuming that it was rebuilt) and adding in a mosque. This is kind of a marked difference. Those seeking to build the mosque have very curious ties; and the last I heard, Saudi Arabia meddles in something like 80% of the mosques in the United States. Is bowing to Wahhabis (or Salafis) really the most appropriate way in which to remember the victims of 9.11? It's astoundingly insulting to even consider such a proposal. Simon Deng and Nonie Darwish put the situation quite well in their speeches at the protest. The present proposal sounds very much like the historical record. I thought we were trying to break all humanity off of that tradition?

 

Bells also raises a good point about the Muslim victims of the attack: how happy would they be to hear that a mosque had been on their ashes by people with ties to extremists? I think they would be rather appalled; as should we all.

 

Jeff Jacoby of the Boston Globe mentions an interesting issue raised by Zuhdi Jasser, and founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy:

He also covers an interesting comment by Stephen Suleyman Schwartz of the Center for Islamic Pluralism in Washington:

Essentially exactly what I wrote earlier. As they say: if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck....

And, on this forum: geniune is genuine.

GeoffP

 

My question is, why did they decide to pick THAT particular spot? Make a statement? Mark their territory like a dog pisses on a fire hydrant? Were they completely oblivious to the significance of their actions, and this is merely a weird coincident?

I seriously doubt the latter. I wouldn't put it past Muslims, judging by things they've done/said that this is a statement. They LOVE making statements. Unfortunately, there isn't much you can do about it, it's a matter of property ownership and Freedom of Religion. However, I also wouldn't put it past New Yorkers to give them an incredibly hard time about their decision to put it there.

 

?? I thought you were ignoring me. You definitely said you wouldn't be talking to me any more, and then there were some assorted insults.

Well, anyway: is this the underlying belief of those opposed to the 9/11 mosque? How do you know? Assumption? There are actual connections between those trying to get it built and certain shady Islamic organizations. Even Muslims such as Schwartz and Jasser don't agree with it, and question the motives of those pushing this deal.

Er: did you read my article? Did you forget also where the mosque is intended to be placed?

Parts of the plane actually hit the site on which the mosque is intended, Bells. I find this objection of yours interesting.

My, my, my.

My, my.

Bells has been doing her homework! Is this part of the little "get Geoff" file? I'm truly honoured.

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Except that you didn't do your homework: the link has to do with death and oppression, not reasonable sensibility. But how interesting. And here I'd thought it was only Sam keeping a list of my literally years-old posts. Curious, no? "Wierd coincidence", perhaps? Or has someone been sharing her crib notes?

That was too funny. Please cite some more from the "Geoff vault": it contains nothing but pearls, I assure you.

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I don't agree with linking it to Muslims per se: rather, the choice was selected by the relevant committee for the reasons you consider. Making a statement. Marking territory. Cynical supremacism. It's all the same thing.

 

That's an unnecessarily harsh appraisal of Feisal Abdul Rauf, Bells. Yet I'm sure you have your reasons. :shrug:

 

Er, Bells, maybe you could answer this one: what would a real Sufi do, do you think, on the site? Maybe you could pot-shoot an answer about that. I have a couple thoughts on the matter, but I'm very curious to see what you might come up with.

 

*sound of Bells rummaging through internet bookmarks*

 

Well according to Islam once a Mosque is built that land is Ummah forever more, and dedicated to Islam, very apt allegory Black Jack.

 

I'm still waiting to hear the fascinating tale of Bells' curious bookmarks.

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Or shall I believe instead it was fortuitous internet searches? If so, could I have the Google link that produced them? I'm so inexpert myself at it, you see. Just never seems to pan out: like surgery with a shotgun.