Multiculturalism is Nonsense

"Multiculturalism is Nonsense"

Yes, i dont know what it is.

 

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So you can speak authoritatively for all Aussies? Whatever you decree is what ALL Aussies believe and think?

No, I think of her as an African-American. Note the distinction between "American" and "African-America"? And, James, before you go labeling me as a "racist, pure and simple", let me remind you that African-Americans also think of themselves as African-Americans. So calling me a racist for using that term, you're also accusing African-Americans as racists.

As for multi-culturalism, I see it as simply mixed cultures and mixed races being forced to live together in some relatively confined spaces, like cities, etc. And the reason that they're not at each others throats is ...laws, rules and enforcement of those laws and rules. Without the laws, without the law enforcement, those cultures/races would be in constant conflict ...sometimes violent conflict.

Baron Max

 

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It's forced integration, that's all it is.

Baron Max

 

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Just as Nations, and Nationalism.

 

Originally Posted by Baron Max: It's forced integration, that's all it is.

Ahh, ....huh? I'm not so sure what you mean by that remark. Care to explain it a little for my feeble mind to grasp it?

Baron Max

 

Nation is a forced integration fuelled by the ideology of nationalism. That's why no nation is fully comfortable with its definition of "nation" and its members.
Nation is also an "imagined community"; nobody, who imagines a belonging to a nation, knows the entire members of his/her group. Nobody personally knows the entire population, so people must assume that they are a member of it.

 

I agree, that would be racism; because I personally don't care about race. Race doesn't influence behavior and is superficial, and the same typically goes for sexuality; these things, are not barriers to cultural and moral and national unity, which are the points I stress.

Having different races is fine; the important bit is that all within a nation share the same culture, same beliefs, and same goals when it comes to the nation. Otherwise, you have division; for example, the modern-day United States.

 

"common sense"? that's scientific? you have established that "different types of people" can not work together--can you please show me your evidence?

then why haven't you left? but one example amongst many: you believe that "democracy is uncivilized and regressive" and you (falsely) believe that the united states is a democracy--so why haven't you left?

 

and how does one go about effecting this? i am really curious as to what methods there are to ensure that all inhabitants of one nation are of "one mind."

and given that these deviant sub-cultures are anathema to a true national spirit or culture, i can only assume that "good" art, literature, music, etc. is only produced by those who are of "one mind" with their nation, correct? do you prefer the state-sanctioned (soviet) compositions of shostakovich to those which he composed of his own accord, sans benefactor?

 

how is sexual orientation not a barrier to the "moral unity" of a nation, when a significant portion of the population believe homosexuality to be "immoral"? must the homophobes be compelled to leave the nation; or alternately, if the official stance of the nation is that homosexuality is immoral, then must all homosexuals leave the nation?

only one culture within a nation--so no chinese restaurants, correct? cuisine is every bit a facet of a culture as is anything else.

 

and finally: shared culture, values, morals, beliefs, heritage, goals, customs, rules of etiquette--have i left anything out?

can you make clear the sense in which you intend every one of these terms, as many of them have both numerous connotations and denotations, and some have never been all that unambiguously defined in the first place. and to be clear: i would like definitions which are consistent, and not so ambiguous as to mean virtually anything and everything under the sun. IOW your understanding of notions such as culture, democracy, sapience, etc. is sloppy, to put it mildly, and i would like some comprehensive and coherent definitions of the preceding notions.

also, can you offer some means and methods by which all of this shall be effected. as i noted above, you clearly do not share even the most vague "national" attributes (given that the u.s. lacks any clear national unity, there are nevertheless a few certain qualities which might serve to define the nation) of the state in which you live, so why are you here? why have you not moved to this imaginary monocultural nation which shares your own values, beliefs, goals, customs, etc.?

 

Put your response into one coherent post, and then I'll answer you.

 

Well, I've been basically agreeing with you in this thread on most things, but on this point, I have to disagree. I think race, as well as sexuality, has played major roles in the conflicts in the USA, as well as in many places of the world, for the last umpty-eleven years (if not longer!).

As I see it, with history as substantial evidence, race and sexuality greatly affect cultural, moral and national unity. Ignoring history is a big mistake!

Apparently it's not fine! In every instance that I know of, in every major city in the USA (as well as lots of international cities), people of the various races (as well as cultures) seem to live segregated from others in their own little "city-within-a-city". That fact alone leads to a division of races and cultures. I.e., they are NOT unified.

Now I'll admit that James R. has told me that Aussieland is different in a post just above here somewhere. That Aussieland is, indeed, a wonderland of unity and love and happiness and successful racial and cultural integration. But as far as I know, it's the only place on Earth where that's true ....if it's true.

Baron Max

 

ok

common sense"? that's scientific? you have established that "different types of people" can not work together--can you please show me your evidence?

then why haven't you left? but one example amongst many: you believe that "democracy is uncivilized and regressive" and you (falsely) believe that the united states is a democracy--so why haven't you left?

and how does one go about effecting this? i am really curious as to what methods there are to ensure that all inhabitants of one nation are of "one mind."

and given that these deviant sub-cultures are anathema to a true national spirit or culture, i can only assume that "good" art, literature, music, etc. is only produced by those who are of "one mind" with their nation, correct? do you prefer the state-sanctioned (soviet) compositions of shostakovich to those which he composed of his own accord, sans benefactor?

and finally: shared culture, values, morals, beliefs, heritage, goals, customs, rules of etiquette--have i left anything out?

can you make clear the sense in which you intend every one of these terms, as many of them have both numerous connotations and denotations, and some have never been all that unambiguously defined in the first place. and to be clear: i would like definitions which are consistent, and not so ambiguous as to mean virtually anything and everything under the sun. IOW your understanding of notions such as culture, democracy, sapience, etc. is sloppy, to put it mildly, and i would like some comprehensive and coherent definitions of the preceding notions.

also, can you offer some means and methods by which all of this shall be effected. as i noted above, you clearly do not share even the most vague "national" attributes (given that the u.s. lacks any clear national unity, there are nevertheless a few certain qualities which might serve to define the nation) of the state in which you live, so why are you here? why have you not moved to this imaginary monocultural nation which shares your own values, beliefs, goals, customs, etc.?

 

So, what exactly are you referring to?

Would you care to explain what you mean by that?

Historically speaking, forced integration might include things like prayer villages, which forcibly converted American indigenous peoples to Christianity; school prayer, which established Christian supremacy; or perhaps tyrannical—e.g., Stalinist—re-education, in which dissenters were forcibly brought around to support the government.

As far as I can tell from your use of the phrase, though, the idea that you can't force people to pray your prayers, believe your beliefs, or all be the same color as you equals forced integration.

So, what exactly are you referring to?

 

Originally Posted by Baron Max: "It's forced integration .... ”

You took that comment from somewhere and it's completely out of context. I have no idea how it was used in a sentence or in a train of thought. So, no, I can't explain it.

But from your other comments, I may have used "forced" in a less authoritative way as what you're alluding to. People can often be "forced" to do things without the actual use of physical force. Shunning is a good example of such "force". Another example is mothers who can sometimes "force" their children to obey with only a stern look.

Baron Max

 

I was not trying to convince you that she is australian, I was trying to glean whether she was a 'vietnamese-aussie' or 'chinese-aussie' and she stated she was simply an aussie. Its an indication that there was no need for the hyphenation. I never said that australia is was a magical land of peace, love and harmony simply that I have never met an aussie who hyphenated their background as they commonly do in the US.

 

A few facts first.

1) All organisms, whether individuals or groups, seek their own continued existence. It's hard-wired into them. The only time they don't is when they're keeping their genes alive in their offspring at their own expense, such as when a mother duck sacrifices itself to a fox to save the ducklings. It is 100% natural, right, and proper to seek the survival of your own genes, or the nearest related genes as indicted by Hamilton's Rule. That is a hard-wired fact of life.

2) Human racial groups are not, as many on the ill-informed Internet have claimed, "less than 1% different". That initial claim was made after Celera Genomics used an inaccurate shotgun method of briefly scanning the DNA of five people from I think three different ethnic backgrounds. The head of that project later admitted he was wrong, and the differences are much greater than 1%.

3) There are indeed major physical, biological differences between racial groups. This can not be denied by anyone who can read.

4) As someone has already mentioned, a nation is a group of people sharing a common genetic heritage. That's where the word comes from. A modern country is not really a nation, except in a few cases.

5) The UK's Commission for Racial Equality found that people tend to be happier and function better when living among people similar to themselves. This applies to all groups. Diversity literally makes people unhappy.

Other things.

The pure data tells us people are different, and groups are different. It tells us it is 100% natural to seek the prosperity of the genes closest to our own over others. But that does not imply anything like "my group is superior to your group". It says only "my group is preferable to your group".

More later.

 

Some information and opinions supporting my previous post. I'll just provide the links rather than cluttering the forum by pasting in a huge load of text.

http://accidentalhuman.livejournal.com/88908.html
http://accidentalhuman.livejournal.com/19841.html
http://accidentalhuman.livejournal.com/103586.html
http://accidentalhuman.livejournal.com/102981.html
http://accidentalhuman.livejournal.com/103948.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/happiness_formula/5012478.stm

 

Wow, greater than 1% different?! So blacks really are different to whites, huh? Man, oh, man, my racist, beer-guzzlin', pickup-truck-drivin', redneck buddies are gonna' love that!

I wonder, ...does this make blatant racism more scientifically valid?

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Baron Max