Multiculturalism is Nonsense

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by Norsefire, Dec 14, 2009.

  1. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    There is a distinction that must be made between a nation and state; a 'country' is a state: that is, the geographic region over which a governing body governs and rules. Thus, the United States of America is a state as defined by agreed-upon borders. This is obvious.

    However, we often assume that all states serve a nation, when in fact this is quite untrue. A nation is a group of people that share common ethnic heritage (though I feel this is largely irrelevant) and, beyond anything else, a common culture and values system. Ideally, the state exists centered around a nation...that is, one nation.

    Can we, then, say that America serves a "nation"? Certainly not. There are many different nations within the state of America; there are many different cultures all living within the state of America. Thus, the one state of America must cater to the needs and demands of several nations... and this is nonsensical.

    It is no secret that there can be huge disagreements between cultures: over values and morals, over customs, and over rules of etiquette, and even more. Thus, how does it make any sense that we should have one government and several nations? Nobody will agree, and indeed as we can observe today, there is division and isolation between people of different cultures.

    People say diversity is 'beneficial', but to that I say, nonsense! I am not against diversity, but you have to have some firm common ground between people; at least, even if people are diverse, they have to be culturally uniform. What other possibility is there, that makes sense? If we are to have one nation, we need to have one culture and we need to ensure that the people are in unison over this culture and that all people identify with and share the same values and customs. This is necessary in order to create a nation-state.

    The problem has arisen because of this staunch, illegitimate so-called 'need' for political correctness; no, the state can't support a specific group! No, the state can't endorse a certain values system! No, the state can't teach these beliefs!

    Nonsense. If the state exists to serve a nation, then that one nation, that rightfully is served by a state, can set any damn laws they please to protect their culture and their way of life, and their values system; instead of the state catering to foreigners who refuse to assimilate and people that refuse to nationalize, those outcasts need to find another place to live. This is the only logical way; and if a fear of being 'politically incorrect' is what is stopping you from supporting such ideals, I say abandon such a fear.

    There is nothing wrong with saying "Britain for the British", or "Netherlands for the Dutch"; it is your country, and your culture first and foremost.

    Multiculturalism is nonsense, and you don't have to tolerate something you don't want to. National identity takes priority.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2009
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  3. Doreen Valued Senior Member

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    To some degree I agree and this is where laws come in.
    But cultures people can obviously have and a wide variety of them. And in the US there are have always been a wide variety of cultures. Now instead of spitting on them, there are some people, more on the coasts, who want to respect difference where we can. And actually you can have an amazing range of differences culturally and still follow the same laws.
    I have no idea what THE US culture would be. I mean there are Latinos in New Mexico whose ancestors were there before there was a US. Often their day to day speech is Spanish. Their religion is Catholic. Am I supposed to say that is wrong. And to be clear for anyone who does not understand. These are not illegal immigrants. These are people who got caught on the wrong side or the right side, in any case on the US side of a border after a war based on BS. So here they are, American.
    I think it is great and I was treated with respect while I lived there by members of that culture and also by members of other cultures who had been there even longer before there was a US. They were not Anglo Saxon either and their culture had even greater differences.

    Multiculturalism is, at its most neutral, let us see how much we can live and let live. A more positive version would be
    Oh, how interesting. How great.

    I do not think this means we have to accept cliterodectomies or wars for oil, but for the most part I fall into the more positive group in relation to diversity.
     
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  5. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Compatibility issues when it comes to laws are only one problem; the next problem is that having separate nations under one state means that you can't have national identity.
     
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  7. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    Historically speaking, multicuturalism blows. The constitution of the USA does not state everybody must be tolerated. However, it *does* grant everybody the right to be free from persecution.
     
  8. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    The obvious

    The scientific principle describing this outcome?

    And what is the alternative?
     
  9. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    I can agree with 'being free from persecution', but people today are so keen to jump and call "persecution" at each attempt to instill a bit of national spirit.

    'Tis common sense. Getting many different types of people and having them fight over one position isn't going to work.

    Nationalism - not nationalism as you may think, but nationalism in the sense of establishing a firm national culture and values system and educating the next generation in such a system. Why not? Let's be united, and let's all have the goal of the nation at heart; why not?

    Gay or straight or black or white, America is America and we need a firm and deep-rooted American culture and values system and a bit of national spirit. The people that are *ahem* diverse 'rebels' can leave.
     
  10. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

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    I'm not sure what you're talking about. It seems to me that Americans do have a cultural identity that is unique to Americans and many subcultural identities underneath. There is no reason you can't have both. People who feel American celebrate all of the country's holidays alongside their own. Kids are expected to know the Pledge of Allegiance and the national anthem, having a Chinese or Mexican or whatever background has nothing to do with it. You can still enjoy your personal cultural traditions as well as partake in American ones. I don't see how they really conflict. I often hear old people complaining about how their grandkids have become "too" American: ie living with your boy/girlfriend, dressing in inappropriate revealing or loose fitting attire, lack of interest in learning their native language... etc. Yet they still celebrate their cultures new year and what not. Are you referring to something else?
     
  11. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    There is not really an 'American' culture; today in America, we worship materialism, and many children grow up never being taught national spirit. There is no American culture, but there is no shortage of separate sub-cultures.

    There is no unity; for an American culture we need a state that is an fixed pillar whereby all the people can give to, receive from, and pledge by. A state united and absolutely indomitably of one mind, one nation (regardless of race or anything else), and one spirit.

    Why not? Why is that so bad? Why is it so bad to say "hey, let's have some culture and let's keep out threats to this culture"? Is it not your country first?
     
  12. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

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    That's what I don't get. It seems to me like there is plenty of national pride and I think there is unity as well underneath this identity as Americans. It reminds me a lot of my high school. We often competed against and had quarrels with the other classes, but when ever something challenged our school as a whole we were united and supported our school. When peace was restored (after some competition with another school

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    ) we quarreled again. America rarely faces challenges great enough to cause the people to forget their differences and unite as Americans.
     
  13. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

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    If that's what we do then that's what we do. So that would be part of our culture.
     
  14. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    So we should sit around and wait for such a challenge? Let's begin uniting now. All or nothing.

    Multiculturalism is a failed experiment, as is evident by the loads and loads of criminal gangs, 'political correctness', inequality before the law and general stupidity among society. Let us have ONE nation with ONE goal and ONE national values system, and let's be united and absolutely intolerant of any threat to that. Why not? Don't you agree, CutsieMarie?
     
  15. codanblad a love of bridges Registered Senior Member

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    who's stopping you? how are we going to have one nation with one goal and one national values system? Absolute intolerance sounds like a great idea.

    you really think homogenizing the population is going to eliminate crime, problems with the law and stupidity?

    What you're suggesting sounds like daisies and sunshine dust, but wouldn't work and would cause way more damage than good.
     
  16. Giambattista sssssssssssssssssssssssss sssss Valued Senior Member

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    I think at certain times that nationalism is a prudent stance to take and, in extreme cases, absolutely vital to the survival of the state in its original functioning form (its ideal). Different people have different opinions on what nationalism means. National Front often has racist and discriminatory connotations.

    All well and good, on paper at least. I would like to know more about what constitutes the value system And who are the *ahem* diverse 'rebels'???
     
  17. Giambattista sssssssssssssssssssssssss sssss Valued Senior Member

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    Do you think maybe some of that "national pride" has been misguided?
     
  18. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Looks like there's some thinly-veiled racism at work in this thread.
     
  19. Giambattista sssssssssssssssssssssssss sssss Valued Senior Member

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    Is there? An illustration perhaps???
     
  20. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Whats an example of multiculturalism? Speaking more than one language? Having more than one religious community? Having people of more than one "race" living in your community?
     
  21. Alexander8 Registered Member

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    I think the concept of 'multiculturalism' is only a tool used for social engineering purposes by the white establishment. When your going to need millions of non-white workers to fill jobs that the whites don't want to do, or your going to create a nationwide 'sub-class' to expand the consumer base, inevitably racial tensions are going to rise that have to be dealt with through social planning and legislation (especially when you've spent the last few centuries doing exactly the opposite of multiculturalism to get your nation world built).

    Most of what is termed 'culture' actually looks rather childish and primitive from a scientitific perspective anyway (and that is the dominant perspective of the Anglo-Saxon world). If I was a non white with a brain I would not be comforted by the spectre of multiculturalism. The long term view looks decidedly more shakey, and darker.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2009
  22. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    i love the irony of an iranian immigrant to the US complaining about multiculterlisum

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  23. mordea Registered Senior Member

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    Oh wow, looks like Norsefire's common sense has whipped the left-winger's into a frenzy!

    Where? Or is this yet another one of your presumptious knee-jerk responses?


    How is it ironic?
     

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