Most famous (non fictional) fighting vessel of all time

True but they lack the range to get close before the cruise missiles are launched. Some would be soon killed by US's plane's missiles, but too late. If every used they way they could be to sink much of the US battle group it would be WWIII's start, probably rapidly going nuclear as MIRVed ABMs give huge premium of striking first.

I was for scrapping ALL of the US's land based missiles as IMHO, they were a great threat to US by provoking a first strike. I gladly worked on several systems to make the sub launched ABMs safe and sure to hit their targets even if they waited to retaliate a week later. - That was (and is) a system which promotes stable deterrent.

 

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Dude an Aegis destroyer could blow up all the missiles. At the most the bomber would carry 5-8 missiles, an Aegis could launch way more than enough to intercept them

 

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:bravo:

:roflmao:

:xctd:

 

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lets keep it on earth please.

 

An F-18's combat radius is 540 km, meaning if it flies farther than that from the carrier it won't have enough fuel to make it back. Its air-to-air missiles have a maximum range of 100 km or so. The bomber will be launching missiles from up to 500 km away. Depending on exactly where the fighters are they might be able to intercept the bombers before they launch, but it's certainly not a sure thing. The Tu-22M bomber goes mach 2.2, the F-18 only mach 1.8, so once the bombers turn around and run away you probably aren't going to be able to catch them.

The tu-22 carried up to 10 missiles. A flight for five bombers = 50 missiles all coming in at once. Again, you might be able to shoot them all down, but it's certainly not a sure thing. Actually I doubt you could get more than half, but I don't really know.

Which isn't to say that bombers can easily take out carriers, of course fighter jets ARE pretty good at shooting them down (if they can catch them), and the carrier will try to have jets patrolling all the time. But the russians apparently thought it would work well enough that they made it their main strategy for dealing with the US navy during the cold war. I assume they thought carefully about it.

 

I think more than half perhaps 85% but it does not matter too much as the battle group loses the Aegis ships on that side and the carrier. Then second wave of 5 to 10 more Tu-22M bombers probably does get the carrier. But not even that matters much as WWIII goes nuclear in less than an hour*. Loss of DC, NYC, Moscow, etc. is more important.
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*because of this high probability, If I were USSR's Cmder in Chiel, the missiles launched by the TU -22 at the battle group would be with nuclear tips and the Aegis ships might be seeing (or learning of) my ABMs in flight in route to sillows in mid west US before or at same time as it saw the TU22.

 

The first two or three Aegis ships still had the old rail launchers. They fired two and then swiveled to reload, but there were more missiles in storage below deck for that.

Later Aegis ships had VLS (vertical launch system) and could fire with only a second or less delay, but their slots (24 as I recall) were not all filled with suitable missiles for the air battle. 50 incoming would easily exhaust the supply of two Aegis ships.

Just when I was leaving APL (developer of the Aegis system) the APL was putting the finishing touches on the CIC (Combat Information Center, I think was what CIC stood for, but I forget.) That allowed an Aegis ship on the other side of the CV to fire missiles and "hand them off" to ship on the attack side's illuminator. The CIC gave the entire battle group one common air picture - much larger than the limited radar horizon of any one ship - and the ability to truly fight as one integrated force. To a large extent the existence of the TU-22s which could easily saturate a couple of Aegis ships, is why the Navy asked APL to make the CIC.

 

Nasor, the range and loiter time for F-18's is only limited by the endurance of the crew, they have inflight refueling capability, so they can extend out beyond 540 km.

But a true mass launch of incoming missiles around the clock, in a saturation strike is going to cause damage, some are going to get through the CAP and on board countermeasures.

 

I'd say an Athenian trireme, ram the bastards!

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Most Certainly.

 

Im sorry but there are several misunderstandings that you have in your message.

First off, you are getting NMI confused with KM, NMI means nautical miles while KM means kilometers. An F-14 tomcat does not have a range of 500 km, it has a range of 500 nautical miles, that equals 926 kilometers.

I also looked up the speed of the bombers. They travel at mach 1.45 equaling 1510 kilometers per hour which equals around 25 kilometers per minute.

Also the reality is that the range of the cruise missile is a mere 290 kilmeters. Please do the appropriate research, you missed this by almost 100%

Now from the time that the TU 22 enters the range of the F-14 tomcat, to the time it takes to reach the maximum range of it's missile is approximately 20 minutes and 8 seconds. Now if the F-14's respond right away they would get within range of the Phoenix air to air missile in around 15-20 minute mark. And each plane carries up to 8-10 anti air missiles so your bombers are completely screwed. They wouldn't get close to the carriers.

And this is assuming that the F-14's dont find out about it until they enter range, if they know about it the F-14's could get to their maximum range in a little under 20 minutes.

So in reality, 100% of the cruise missiles would be destroyed because none of them would be launched.


Also a TU-22 could only carry one nuclear armed cruise missile, specifically the AS-4 "Kitchen" cruise missile.

And also at maximum speed an F-14 could easily out run a TU-22.

The speed of a TU 22 at maximum speed(including afterburner) is mach 1.42, or 1510 km per hour

The maximum speed (including afterburner) of the F-14 is mach 2.34. or 2485 kmh.

The mathematics were from me, but the information was from wikipedia.

 

I don't claim any special knowledge here, but think, suspect, that is true only conceptually, not in the case of TU-22 raid on the battle group. Surely the TU-22s have a few air-to-air missiles hung under their wings. A tanker would be a sitting duck, and soon a dead duck, if out that far.

What is done in practice to keep some F-18s etc. out that far is the "chain saw." I.e. a plane is launched every X minutes from the carrier deck and flies out as far as it can and still stay on station X minutes. It then returns for fuel as the next plane in the "chain saw" arrives to replace it.

When the approaching TU-22s are detected by the on station plane, it tells carrier to launch many more to come out for the battle* and fires its air-to-air missiles if can wait for range to close enough. X minutes later the next in the chain arrives and fires too. Etc.
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*Especially if the battle group was approaching "Mother USSR" which is about the only scenario that could have happened as it is highly unlikely the USSR would start WWIII just because the Battle group was in Mid Atlantic. Thus most likely the TU-22s have some ground based fighter escorts. (USSR had tankers too and they could be well defended behind the TU-22s and the fighters they were re-fueling.) The F-18 that sounded the alarm may have problems just surviving if several of these escorts are engaging it.

If re-fueling of the F-18 were to be done, the US tanker would also be held back in a safe zone. I.e. the chain saw length would be shorter and X could be larger if tanker is supporting the outer air battle. Also a practical limit on how far out the F-18s etc. can go is that the azmuth of the attack probably is not known. The farther out, the greater the circumference. The F-18s do not want to be in the wrong azmuth location. Just far enough out to have good chance of killing the TU-22s before thay can launch their cruise missiles.

 

That is one of so many ridiculous possibilities.

P.S. the TU 22 does not carry anti air missiles and USSR fighters do not have enough range to escort them
They are screwed beyond belief.

 

You may be, probably are, correct on the first part but as I noted the USSR would not have started WWIII if battle group was in mid Atlantic.

The only scenario provoking a TU22 raid on a battle group is if the battle group were approaching the USSR. Then there would be fighters escorting the TU-22s and these fighters could be re-fueled for USSR's tankers remaining in the protection range of USSR's SAMs.

 

It still doesnt matter. The F-14's could blast them out of the sky before they could even engage, and considering it is a head on fight, radar countermeasures wont work. And the F-14's arent total morons, they would engage the bombers before the fighters, they can engage 9 targets simultaneously, and thats a single F-14, a wing of them could include 4 to 6.

Your bombers are screwed any way you look at it.

 

Planes are launched when unauthorized aircraft approach the battle group. But mainly mostly to prevent any unintended consequences...as a deterent.

The United States Fleet is fully equiped with guided missle systems that can easily destroy aircraft at great distances...hundreds of miles from the fleet. So aircraft to defend the fleet is largely redundant. Naval aircraft do intercepts primarily to prevent unintended international incidents rather than to specifically defend the fleet.

Aircraft can be tracked and destroyed at great distances from the fleet via integrated missle defense systems like Aegis.

Naval aviation today is primarily an offensive weapon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_combat_system

 

Not quite, actually there are always a wing of F-14's surrounding the carrier for long range defense, the missiles on the carrier are a last ditch defense

 

Yes they are still used, but more as a preventative measure rather than a necessary measure. The Ageis system has a disadvantage in that it is noisy. So a fleet wanting to maintain low visability might choose not to engage the system.

 

Are you crazy? The Gammalons are bombarding us! Hurry to Iskandar, Yamato!

 

Dude an aircraft carrier is the size of a football field, how in the world would you maintain minimal visibility. And considering that Fox and CNN are stalking the aircraft carriers and telling us if they even so much as turn on their reactor, stealth is not very helpful