Mormons are a CULT!

Check this out

Need to find reformed egyptian here:
http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/travel/ldumois/maya/ldmayanumbers.html
http://www.bbc.peachnet.edu/academic_svcs/art_science/dubay/mexico/mayan_math.html
http://www.mc.maricopa.edu/~refflan...d/mayan_lost_tribes/maya_writing/writing.html

http://www.greatscott.com/hiero/
http://members.aol.com/egyptnew/hiero.html
http://www.isomedia.com/homes/mjohns/calc.htm

 

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False prophet, false religion, false hopes!!!
Let me repeat some questions that were never answered:
“First, explain to everybody what the "Book of Mormon" is about?
Who are the major players?
What is the "story" about?
What happens to all those tribes?
What are the other claims? “
And so again I state:
"My point is, that the BoM is a piece of fiction, it may be the "FIRST" true science fiction or science fantasy novel ever written, but it's still fiction!!! None of its claims can stand up to modern archeology, just post any of its claims in a science chat board or ask non-mormon archeology or anthropology teachers if there is any proof of all these peoples mentioned in the BoM? It should be easy, those events are only a couple of thousand years in the past!”


Mormonism links:
http://www.farms.byu.edu
http://www.jefflindsay.com/MyPages.shtml#religion


Interesting links:
http://www.nccg.org/NCMM/LDS2-4.html
http://www.si.edu/resource/faq/nmnh/origin.htm
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/israel/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/first/
http://www.chattanooga.net/cita/mtdna.html
http://www.nmnh.si.edu/anthro/outreach/indian_l.htm
http://www.si.edu/resource/faq/nmnh/origin.htm
http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/...scripts_eom.htm
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/teache...02_vikings.html


Language links
http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/travel/ldumois/maya/ldmayanumbers.html
http://www.bbc.peachnet.edu/academic_svcs/art_science/dubay/mexico/mayan_math.html
http://www.mc.maricopa.edu/~refflan...d/mayan_lost_tribes/maya_writing/writing.html
http://www.greatscott.com/hiero/
http://members.aol.com/egyptnew/hiero.html
http://www.isomedia.com/homes/mjohns/calc.htm


Numeral links
http://www.usatoday.com/news/healthscience/science/wonderquest/2002-06-28-base-60.htm
http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/HistTopics/Greek_numbers.html
http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/HistTopics/Babylonian_numerals.html
http://www.math.wichita.edu/history/topics/num-sys.html#qui
http://www.transparent.com/languagepages/hebrew/overview.htm
http://www.jewfaq.org/alephbet.htm
http://www.yahuah.org/izintro.html
http://www.mandarintools.com/numbers.html
http://saxakali.com/COLOR_ASP/chinamh1.htm
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_numerals

Calendar links
http://saxakali.com/COLOR_ASP/chinese.htm
http://www.transimage.com/Cal/CalChi.html
http://www.iahushua.com/ST-RP/Calendar.html
http://www.bible-history.com/jewishyear/jewishyear_nelson_s_illustrated_bible_dictionary.html
http://www.inkemetic.org/calnfest.htm
http://www.egyptologyonline.com/astronomy.htm
http://www.lifepositive.com/mind/culture/maya/mayan.asp
http://edj.net/mc2012/fap13.html
http://www.rocknroll.force9.co.uk/faceHair/maya.htm
http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/travel/dpalfrey/dpaztec.html


See if you can find any connection between ancient Mayas and ancient Israelites? This is a test!

 

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Non-Mormon Christianity is no better

Nope...it's not against my religion to watch TV or anything like that. It's just that my time is extremely limited, and I don't want to waste what little free time I have watching TV. I'd much prefer to waste my time debating religion on the Internet.

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Then apparently I have something in common with fundamentalist Christians.

I'm discussing religion - what are you doing here?

And how is non-Mormon Christianity any better?

Christianity is nothing more than a resurrection of older Pagan religions. Many of the New Testament stories that Christians hold so dear are nothing more than fairy tales, and can be shown as such for those who are willing to see. Many of these fairy tales were concocted for the purpose of raking the Jews over the coals, while making the Romans look like the good guys. And Christians are presenting this junk to innocent people who don't know any better. Bottom line is the bible doesn't even line up with what the bible says.

So pumpkins, how are you and your religion different?

 

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R.I.P.

ok...let's just let this thread die a natural death, shall we??

obviously, Nahushta...if you REALLY cared about what my beliefs entail, you would have read the ENTIRE thread. but...ah, well...


i think you just like arguing for the sake of arguing...maybe it's just your nature, i dunno...

me? i prefer debating; NOT instigating. see ya around the school yard...toots.

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Re: R.I.P.

If you don't enjoy instigating, then why did you start this thread, which seems to have been devoted solely to bashing Mormons?

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not bashing, dear...that's your perception of my posts.....i was attempting to enlighten. and, since we are all only human in this thread that means at times it got a bit "iffy" - every participant in this thread have shown very "human moments" ...including the *gasp* the mormons...and, you.


now...let's let this rest in peace. ok? ok.

toots...

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Passing through... or not.

Haven't been here in quite some time.

I'm affraid, therefore, i'm going to have to start where i was posting last and begin answering.

Yup. Gotta be done.

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If i should reanswer some things, tough noogies.

I'll try to keep things as brief as possible.

----------------

Btw, Randolpho (if you're still out there). What the heck is a Danite?

Anywho...

Randolpho
Non-practicing? Why defend what you don't practice?

Chromatose
I didn't say i didn't believe. Conditions are such that i am unable to formally participate.

Randolpho: re Lampllighter?
Believe me that I am sincere in my beliefs, I bear testimony that what I say is true, mormonism is false, the result of a mixture of ideas that Joseph Smith put together for all to follow. I implore you, follow Jesus!!!

Chromatose
Joseph Smith was both too young and too uneducated when he began to have constructed things as you say.

pumpkinsaren'torange: re somebody
Mormonism is indeed false. i actually feel sorry for you that you are indeed being unwittingly/unwillingly/unknowingly deceived....

Chromatose
Ooh, that's so magnanimously condescending of you. Mormonism is indeed true. I feel sorry for you that you are indeed being unwittingly/unwillingly/unknowingly deceived...

 

More

Randolpho
All the following were found using "archangel" AND "gabriel" on a search engine
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06330a.htm
http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintg03.htm
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06330a.htm


All the following were found using "angel" AND "jabril" on a search engine
http://uwacadweb.uwyo.edu/religione...SRY.HTM#gabriel
http://uwacadweb.uwyo.edu/religione...SRY.HTM#gabriel
Check the following link about half way down
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib...97/nwsa0128.txt


All the following were found using "angel" AND "moroni" on a search engine
http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/...2_angel_eom.htm
http://www.ldscn.com/hcp/history/angel_moroni.shtml
http://www.lds.org/media/newsreleas...1-130-1,00.html


Chromatose
I'll have a look when i can. I want to catch up on this thread.

pumpkins quoting Chromatose
Since Jesus and God the Father were the ones who first appeared to Joseph Smith, the LDS will certainly get some aproval.

pumpkins re
good grief.

how do you even know that Joseph Smith was in his right mind when he experinced these "uninvited guests " (hee hee) ??

Chromatose re
He was just a teenager. And they weren't exactly uninvited. He went to the woods after reading the "seek and ye shall find" etc. bit in the Bible to ask God which was the church to join since there seemed to be dozens all saying something different.

pumpkins goes on
i mean, maybe the poor man was delusional. he certainly wasn't a saint or even a virgin. know what i mean...so, why would God single him out?

Chromatose re
No proof that he was delusional. Pretty typical kid. Saints (in the non LDS meaning) are simply people a church called that. Entirely the decision of church officials. Not a little politics and money often involved in the old days.

God singled him out before he came to Earth for valiance (sp?) in the spirit world.

pumpkins continues
i know one thing, i live near the town of Nauvoo, Illinois and they STILL think they did the right thing by booting him out of town for being a heretic and apostate. Lots of interesting history on Joseph Smith in this town that only small town's are ususally privy to. in otherwords, that got the real low-down on J. Smith. oh, yeah.

Chromatose re
Ooh. That means a lot.

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People responsible for the death of Jesus thought the same about him. Hey, for that matter Galileo was put under house arrest for years for being a heretic. Doesn't mean they were correct. And let's see... how many hundred years were required for Christianity to gel and become accepted? At any rate, the victors write the history.

All the residents of Nauvoo had against Joseph and the rest of the LDS was jealousy of their prosperity and the fact that they didn't agree with their beliefs; supposedly under the guarantee of the constitution. A just developing church. Some things may have gone on. The church members weren't claiming perfection.

 

Still more.

pumpkins - mormon ordinance booklet
*This booklet is purposely *not copyrighted* and may be copied or used in any way deemed appropriate.

Chromatose re
And i'm sure it has been deemed appropriate for twisting to mean all sorts of garbage.

pumpkins continues
One of the objectives of this foray was to test the well known Mormon claim of Divinely aided Temple security.

Chromatose re
Well known?? I can't find anyone around here that's even heard of that. What's the source?

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pumpkins continues
As former Mormons and Temple Workers who are now born again Christians, we acknowledge a great responsibility to the unsuspecting world to expose and reprove with exactness and the light of truth, precisely what activities transpire inside the Mormon temples today.

Chromatose re

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And i'm sure he was a "pious" born again christian and that the lies and deception involved were strictly a one time thing!

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and on
yahda, yahda, quote some scripture and prove you're an intellectual...

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This booklet is intended especially for those nonparticipating Mormons, to enable them to recognized the occultic, non-Christian nature of these rituals, and to see them for themselves in the clear light of reality. We are confident that those who will prayerfully evaluate these rites for themselves will be able to see them as they truly are, rather than continuing in the naive belief that they are the sacred vehicle essential to becoming a polygamous god, destined to rule over a new planet for eternity.

Chromatose re

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on and on and on, then
Anyone who is familiar with the rite of Freemasonry will recognize them as the primary source for the tokens, signs, and penalties used in the Temple Endowment. Much of the mystical symbolism of Mormonism is also borrowed from Masonry.

Chromatose re
An orange may resemble a tangerine but it doesn't make them the same thing.

pumpkins' booklet gets going
These are still a mystery to the participants...

Chromatose re
laughable. Um... the booklet hasn't actually described anything yet but that's the end of the post? Where's this exact transcript and description?

 

Requires no intensive church knowledge.

Someone quoted by Randolpho
I join you in your question. But I would like to add something of my own. This change hit me on a more fundamental level. Why would the prophet want to change what God had supposedly instituted just over 150 years ago? Did this make what God had said to be offensive? Did modern-day men deem the words of the Almighty as not streamlined enough? They also took out the part about the evil Catholic priest trying to lead astray the thoughts of men. Apparently that was too offensive as well.

Chromatose re
Oh, right. No other christian religions modify anything as they go along.

LDS Church President/Prophet prays to God. God instructs. Changes made.

Randolpho replies to a comment by Lamplighter about this forum being too accusational and adversarial by saying what?
So, can't think for yourself??? Huh???

Chromatose re
Ooh. An insult. That's some impressive debating!


pumpkins
par for the course.
i see that no mormon on this thread even bothered touching/responding to my post about an ex-mormon and how he recorded what actually happened during Temple. And, about all the heavy influences of the Masons and how the mormons have basically integrated them into their religion.

Chromatose re
All you did was quote some guy saying that's what the situation was. No reason for a response. I don't automatically have to believe this quoted dingus. From what you quoted, he's got no integrity. He used lies and deception to gain access to a temple.

 

pumpkins
i don't consider Randolfo's exchanges abusive. i perceive them as being persistent

Chromatose re
Uh-huh. That's why virtually every sentence is a backhanded insult.

Davearchy
we believe Jesus Christ to be our Savior, just look at our name for proof. God, Christ, and the Holy Ghost, as many have probably heard a Mormon say, are 1 in purpose, not in body.

Chromatose comment
I never have been able to completely understand all the hoops denominations jump through to squish 3 beings into one, especially how God sent his son which was actually him.

pumpkins - with a pedastle of her own

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don't you know that the mormons ARE (according to LampLighter) Christians ...and, from what we've seen...are oh-so-much more holier than thou. you heathen, you. (yep, that's what the Mormons think of people that aren't of their faith..just ask him) actually, i am quite surprised (allbeit, pleasantly) that a mormon has actually decided to come down off his pedestal long enough to debate this matter at hand. *claps Lamp on the back in good-spirited fellowship* *and, throws in a couple of smilies for extra measure*

Chromatose re
Yet another backhanded insult. It's the MORMONS who have to come down from their pedastle to debate sensibly. I've yet to see any of your posts which aren't horribly condescending.

 

And on

pumpkins
maybe it's the way you guys come across, ya know?? have you ever considered that a possibility ...could be why other's think you think you're better than others. dunno, just a hunch..

Chromatose re
Right back at ya!

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Davearchy
Meaning no one is perfect and some Mormons have their own problems and misconceptions.

Chromatose re
That's where i come in.

pumpkins
ok. fair enough. odd you say?? well...for starters, what's NOT odd about the whole holy underwear fiasco. and, yes...i have read and researched this issue....and, i must say, i find it rather odd.

another odd thing is that you have taken the ideologies of Masonry and incorporated it into your religion....i find that odd. nowhere in the bible does it mention using satanic-like rituals[Masonry] when worshipping Christ.

Chromatose re
Interesting. I find the garb of Cardinals odd and priests swinging incense. Seems strange also that in the spirit of "Christianity", Catholics fought the crusades, killed off South American empires, and conducted the inquisition. Strange, too that i don't recall anything about that stuff in the Bible. (whether you're catholic or not, my point is there)

pumpkins
i truly believe that the mormons are being deceived by you-know-who .. and are prone to severe delusions.

Chromatose re
Oh, definitely. And i truly believe that protestants only killed real witches.

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Duh, every human is at some times deceived by I-know-who.

 

Ahhh.

Davearchy
It isn't the church's fault that more blacks don't join, which to me it seems you guys are accusing us of intentionally keeping them out, which we aren't.

Chromatose side comment
Black populations in various parts of Africa are one of the fastest growing segments of the LDS church! Temples can't be built fast enough.

Randolpho
you have to go about 40% down this link, to read about mormons & N. Utes, but the other stuff is interesting too

Chromatose re
When you do get down there (past some of the revisionist history) you've already read far nastier things perpetrated by Spaniards and Mexicans. With the LDS and Utes it was a relatively mild push and shove and a bit of thievery. Says straight out that LDS tried to keep peaceful relations with the Utes. The US was expanding or else. At least the LDS tried to improve the lot of Utes as much as possible. Conflicts actually took a while. The indians had no use for the barren SL valley and it's salty lake.

On the Danites, i quote from your linked document: "Danites apparently were organized in June of 1838 to defend the Mormons from internal enemies who had stirred up much prejudice and even violence against the Saints.", "public Danites" - meaning the entire Mormon armies... were organized solely for self-defense.", "the Danites evolved by the fall of 1838 into a defensive group to protect the Saints from the external threat of mobsters.", "both Mormons and non-Mormons have fundamentally failed to grasp what the Danites were, and this misunderstanding is perpetuated in the continued use of the term only for meanings critics of the Church early attached to it.", "we have a company of Danites in these times, to put right physically that which is not right, and to cleanse the Church of verry great evils which hath hitherto existed among us inasmuch as they cannot be put to right by teachings & persuasyons" On and on. A defensive force to protect them from without, within, and to do community service.

On and on and on about how the Danites had to defend the church against outside attacks from previous settlers.

Did you even read this?
I'm not taking forever to read the complete text of all those links to learn how the LDS did all those things to defend themselves. Just a quick scan of the others, especially as i've read multiple versions of virtually all those events previously.

Well, that about covers it. Maybe not harmless, but would you expect them to just stand there as pacifists and let older and newer settlers persecute them at will?

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Now lets stick to the truth here...

Randolpho
Hey!!! I'm friendly too!!! but just because I don't agree with you makes me "unfriendly?

Chromatose re
Actually it's the ubiquitous backhanded insults sneaked into virtually every sentence.

Randolpho
Join FARMS!!http://www.farmsresearch.com/
Do it if you dare!!! You'll see, the BoM is fiction!!!

Chromatose re
Oooh. A dare.

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The BoM is precisely as fictitious as is the Bible.

Pragmathen
I might be wrong, but I wonder why Randolfo doesn't apply the same amount of discrediting to his own religion as he does with Mormonism.

Chromatose re
It's a good thing you said that. You were sounding like someone who thought only LDS history had it's warts. But given the fact that all religions have them, i don't see why you'd leave one for another. Or did you become atheist. I don't understand that either. None of the churches is perfect so discard them all?

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pumpkins
but, the reason why is simple: it's because his religion (see earlier posts) is the Truth and the truth cannot be discredited. one can try to discredit it...but, in the end...it will still be the truth.

Chromatose re

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Oh puh-Leeezz. I don't know what the crap that's supposed to mean. If you mean his religious history and belief is true, let's see him try to prove it any easier than it is to prove LDS doctrine. If you mean science, well how about this:
For several decades now it has been considered "truth" that the 3 million year old skeleton known as Lucy was of someone bipedal; a direct link in human ancestry. Just a few weeks ago i read a mountain of very interesting data about a skeleton found that is 6 million years old and also bipedal: i.e. the Lucy theories are now crap. She's just an offshoot species that died out.
It was also accepted truth that human ancestors walked around on the ground like apes, finally developing and walking upright. Only it seems that this 6 million year old dude had hands for climbing trees, and bone structure and wear that showed he spent most his time there. Seems that a great deal was learned and now the prevailing theory among many is that humans started in the trees and then began traveling larger distances between them by walking on the ground.
A few years ago it was accepted fact that Russian aristocrats descended from Cosacks. Bam! New finds have proven absolutely that the ancient rulers of Kiev were Vikings!
It's now become known that the great pyramid was built by highly skilled paid laborers after decades and decades of thought that it was built mostly by slaves.
In ancient times for a period, Japan had an enormous trading and military fleet which traded as far west as Africa. Not known a few years back.

Tomorow somebody could accidentally dig up the remains of people originating in Jerusalem while digging a foundation for a highrise on the Yucatan peninsula. With human knowledge doubling every 5 years, today's truth could be overturned tomorow!

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pumpkins quoting somebody and agreeing
not one of its claims can stand up to modern archeology, just post any of its claims in a science chat board or ask non-mormon archeology or anthropology teachers if there is any proof of all these peoples mentioned in the BoM? It should be easy, those events are only a couple of thousand years in the past!

Chromatose re
Big whoop-die do. We obviously already know everything there is to know about archaeology and anthropology. Hmm. Wait... then what are all those scientists doing?

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Ask 20 different scientists in the field to expound on how bad global warming will be for the Earth and you'll get 20 answers ranging from "it isn't happening" to "The polar ice caps will melt and cover california.

 

Re: Now lets stick to the truth here...

First, the “ph” is only an English convention which is pronounced like an ‘f’, it is not used in Spanish, which is the language most Mexicans use, of which I am one, so here’s a little language lesson, its spelled ‘Randolfo’ & pronounced ‘Ron-dole-foe’. Same letters, but they have a different pronunciation. By the way, the ‘l’ is pronounced in Spanish, since all letters, except ‘h’ are voiced. Your spelling would be pronounced ‘Ron-dolp-oh’ in Spanish, which is very unpronounceable. I’m not sure why so many people can’t spell a simple name, you could even cut & paste!

Why the language lesson? Because it is part of the same problem that I see in the BoM & the Mormon belief that they know the actual history of the people involved (Native Americans) better than the people themselves, you can’t steal someone’s ‘history’, if the people involved fight back. The BoM is no more real than if I wrote a ‘true history’ of the Martian aliens that peopled ice-age Europe that we now call ‘Neanderthals’ & disappeared after some went ‘native’ here & the rest left the solar system after Mars ceased to have a viable environment. BTW, I call it the ‘Book of Mormon’, after the name of the main protagonist, ‘Mor’, it’s pronounced with a Jamaican accent, ‘De Bok ov Mor-MON’.

I was being sarcastic, I just wanted to be part of this ‘lovefest’, I already know that since I don’t agree with them, of course I would be considered ‘unfriendly’.

Why would I discredit my religion? I believe it’s true & that the false offshoot called ‘mormonism’ is a cult. BTW if mormonism is a cult, wouldn't it be incumbent on its adherents to prove that wrong? Do you expect me to go to the defense of mormonism? Why should I do their work? Work harder LDS troops

You conveniently forget that these Israelite exiles came with tons of cultural baggage that would have made a very lasting impression on the ‘savage indians’; steel, horses, an alphabet, a religion & a language, what happened to all that? With that much power, they should have been able to leave descendants in power much like the Spanish, Portuguese & English did, look in the mirror, are you Euro-American? Black? Asian? Where did you get those genes from, that make you, you? Need a DNA genetics class, like the BoM does?

So I take it, you posted on science chatrooms & arch. websites? What was the response? Did you join FARMS?

Hmmm, check this out:
http://www.latimes.com/tools/more.jsp?section=/news/nationworld/nation
Friday, January 3, 2003
COLUMN ONE
Treasures From Icy Tombs
Melting glaciers in the Yukon lead to finds archeologists dream of. Mummies and Stone Age artifacts go back about 10,000 years.

what do you know, melting glaciers? No way!!!

 

Found it!!!

Found my copy of The BoM after moving, intro states that the Lamanites "are the principal ancestors of the American Indians."

If that is true, then all Native American languages should be related to the "Reformed Egyptian" that these Jewish people supposedly spoke. Anyone with a basic knowledge of similar languages would be able to prove that easily.

So, I am wondering if any one of you knows Arabic, Hebrew, Coptic, Aramaic or Assyrian & knows what the following names found in the BoM may possibly mean:

Abinadi
Ablom
Aiath
Alma
Alpha
Angola
Cohor
Cumenihah
Cumorah
Enos
Ether
Helaman
Irreantum
Isabel
Jacobugath
Jarom
Laman
Lehi
Mormon
Moroni
Mosiah
Mulek
Nephi
Sam

Just curious

 

Actually, I'm gettin quite a kick out of it so... please continue. Do catholics next! oh oh!!!

 

Thanks for the suggestion, but I was thinking of working on islam next, after I re-read my copy of the BoM & take notes that I can research later.

I'll let you do catholicism, how bout it?

 

dude, I'm way too lazy, but thanks! really, when I took a class in medieval monastacism from a priest, I felt that catholocism was done (in the sense of my original "do catholics next" post) quite well during that time. sadly, the details now escape me.

hmm... maybe I could start by talking about all the catholic butt-raping cardinals right? woo hoo!

then maybe the churches history of incredible corruption, homosexuality and murder.. wait molestation! i can't decide where to start!

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Re: Now lets stick to the truth here...

Actually, it may be hard to get the definite “missing link” until they find more skeletons, and yes, they haven’t found all the branches that led to Homo Sapiens Sapiens yet, but don’t get to excited, you might fall off your tree!

True

Possibly true, but they may have been the artisans & craftsmen, they made sure these things were built right? Also, don’t forget, these things weren’t built overnight, needed skilled craftmen to oversee these projects.

Sources, please, I think you mean China? Name your sources?

Could happen, it would be ‘earth-shattering’ news, but then again, why weren’t the European explorers met by Hebrew speaking Natives? Jews managed to keep Hebrew in one form or an other for thousands of years, check out Ashkenazi & Sephardic Hebrew or the Ladino & Yiddish dialects of Europe.
Why could Jews keep the Hebrew alive & not the Laminites? (Mormon 9:33)
Why weren’t the European explorers met by ‘white’ Natives? (BoM intro, 2nd paragraph)
Why weren’t the European explorers met by steel-sword welding Natives? (2 Nephi 5:15)
Why weren’t the European explorers met by wheat-planting Natives? (Mosiah 9:9)
Why weren’t the European explorers met by cow-herding Natives? (Ether 9:18) (at least in the Southwest?)
Better yet, why weren’t the Europeans met by ship-building Natives at Europe's door? (Alma 63:5-6)

Last time I checked, archeologists & anthropologists didn’t know any more about climate, meteorology &/or weather, than you or me, and sadly, scientists may disagree on the findings about ‘global warming’ because several are paid by chemical cos. or polluting industries, & just like all those scientists working for tobacco cos, they ain’t going to spill the beans on their bread & butter. Plus, if you haven’t found out yet, many scientists see the same facts & will interpret them slightly to totally different, depending on what they believe, that’s why most scientists believe in arguing, testing & re-doing every idea, theory & hypotheses, since that is the CORE of science: verifiable, logical, reproducible facts & figures, yes or no? Most scientific truths are found by consensus, until an 'Einstein' shows them another level to look into.