More Than a Third of the Republican Party Now Favors Putin!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, Dec 16, 2016.

  1. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    What has become of the Party of Reagan? Reagan would be rolling over in his grave if he knew what has become of his party.

    But I guess that explains a lot. It's consistent. Republicans hate the free press. Putin hates the free press. Republicans want to bring back and expand upon torture as an interrogation device. Putin loves torture. Putin likes to help his friends with fake news and server hacks. Republicans like Putin's illegal hacking into American servers and interfering in elections and fake news in order to help Republicans win elections.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/gop-russia-putin-support-232714
     
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  3. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Russia is under heavy economy crushing sanctions for their crimes in Syria and Ukraine, Trump is most likely going to negotiate an end to that for favors delivered.
     
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  5. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    That's an unfortunate but very real possibility. It's the favors part I'm afraid of . Trump has a lot of business entanglements with Russians. His campaign manager was and remains deeply enmeshed with Russians. Many of his current advisers are deeply enmeshed with Russians. One of them has received Russia's highest honor from none other than Putin himself.

    I fear Trump may be unwittingly setting the world up for WW III or at the very least fascist domination. Now, I don't know Trump or his kids. But my impression right or wrong is that his kids are more closely linked to reality than the Donald. But they bring a host of other problems to the table.
     
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  7. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Well WW3 with Russia is not likely what with Trump being Putins *** bucket, rather Trumps entanglement with Taiwan and China is where that could start.
     
  8. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    I ... I'm sorry, sir, I thought you had heard: The Party of Reagan↱ is now the Party of Trump↱. As one source apparently told a reporter after hearing the message, "For God's sake, it's Stephen Moore! He's the guy who started Club for Growth. He's Mr. Supply Side economics."

    I know, I know. But, yes, Stephen Moore was the messenger↱.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Swan, Jonathan. "Trump adviser tells House Republicans: You're no longer Reagan's party". The Hill. 23 November 2016. TheHill.com. 19 December 2016. http://bit.ly/2ftdEKR
     
  9. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    What I'm worried about is the disruption of world order. What happens if Trump accepts Russia's aggression against its neighbors? The Russian aggression would likely continue. What then? When does it stop? It puts us back into the events which precipitated WW II. Ironically, the "make America great again Trump, becomes the second coming of Chamberlain. At some point a line will be drawn against Russia, and that line could result in WW III.

    And yes, there is the Trump-China problem too. It's scary. There is no doubt about it. With a buffoon like Trump anything is possible.
     
  10. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Well basically this is the end of the USA as the world superpower, so on the good side no more us having to pay to be world police force, on the bad side no more world police force. Russia wants to take that spot, certainly china wants as much of the pacific it can get too, etc. and the USA will just sit back and watch Trump's version of the Running man (New Celebrity Apprentice hosted by Arnold Schwarzenegger... wish I was not kiddying, we live in a joke!), In short I think the USA will just wither away as we curl up into are own ever expending fat asses and implode, and China and Russia will be where it is all at.
     
  11. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    4,121
    This isn't exactly on topic because it doesn't involve Russia but this seems to be the current Trump thread...

    A woman who signs people up for Obamacare explains why she voted for Trump

    ...

    Sarah Kliff
    Who did you vote for in 2008?

    Kathy Oller
    I voted for Obama.

    Sarah Kliff
    What about 2012?

    Kathy Oller
    Obama.

    Sarah Kliff
    Why?

    Kathy Oller
    I voted for him because I knew that he was going to give us health care. I was in a preexisting condition. And right away he said, if you need health insurance, we're gonna do away with the preexisting.

    ....

    Sarah Kliff
    Who did you vote for in 2016?

    Kathy Oller
    I voted for Trump. It was a Russian roulette again, but I felt that we need change, because they're not capping off this. It's just the amounts are so high, and we need change, and there was so much going on in the government with secrecy.​

    I think we just need a blend of different people.

    ...

    Sarah Kliff
    Did you hear him talking about repealing Obamacare in the campaign?

    Kathy Oller
    Yeah, he was going to get rid of it. But I found out with Trump … he says a lot of stuff. [laughs] I just think all politicians promise you everything and then we'll see.​

    I just fucking fail to comprehend.

    This is only one anecdote but you also see polls - "The majority of Americans are uneasy about the Trump presidency" (paraphrased) or "25% of Republicans believe Trump can't be trusted with nuclear codes" (again, paraphrased) - yet, they want Trump to be president.

    I just fucking fail to comprehend.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
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  12. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    There are many factors that come together, other than shear stupidity, but one of the big ones is simply that Trump was not Hillary Clinton, in the Clintons they saw "more of the same" they saw NAFTA and policies that would assure the continued decline of the middle class, in trump they at least saw hope, if improbable.
     
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  13. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    6,070
    The Republican Party owns the institution come January. Reagan might be scratching his head wondering how it came to be, but that assumes he hasn't given the Democrats' performance much attention.
     
  14. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Basically this is the end of the world order which fomented more than a half century of peace. The end of Pax Americana is indeed scary, and it should be.

    The prevailing belief in some circles, mostly Republican circles, is that Trump said and did all those kooky things he said and did in order to gain the votes of the less well informed, i.e. the ignorant. It was good ole demagoguery on a scale we have not seen in the US for at least a century. Candidates normally lie, but Trump took it to an unprecedented level. He had no shame. Now that he has their votes some folk think we will now see a more reasoned and intelligent Trump emerge. I have yet to see that Trump. I doubt he exists. But we can always hope. I can always hope.

    I'm very concerned about Trump. A lot of people are giving him a pass. I don't know where this is going. But if Trump's past behaviors are any indication, it isn't a good place. Markets are anticipating the end of Republican deadlock and a trillion dollar stimulus package followed by a tax cut for the wealthy which will at about 12 million dollars to the deficit. For some perspective, that's several fold larger than the stimulus enacted by Democrats when the country was in the jaws of the Great Recession and on the brink of economic collapse. What happened to the party of fiscal austerity and all that nonsense about needing to cause a debt default? Republicans seem to have forgotten all they claimed to have stood for, for the last 8 years.

    If Trump precipitates a trade war with China as seems inevitable, he will need all the fiscal stimulus he can get. It will put Americans out of work and make imported products more expensive. And then there is the Russia affair. Trump is so entwined with Russia I don't see how that works out well. His closest advisers are entwined with Russia, e.g. his campaign manger, his security adviser, and now his Secretary of State. Trump's friendly relationship with Russia could well jeopardize national security and destabilize Europe. And then there is the matter of Trump's personality. He sees everything through the eyes of a narcissist. Narcissists have left a lot of blood in their wakes, e.g. Hitler, Napoleon,Qaddafi, Pol Pot, Stalin. And then there is the matter of civil liberties. Trump doesn't like them. He is very authoritarian. He doesn't like the free press, and the guy openly endorses the use of torture. That should be scary to everyone. But it's just fine with those guys with the guns and see gov'met conspiracies under every rug. It's odd. It's irrational. But it's where we are.

    We really need to change the way we elect our president. Hell we need to reform the entire election process. It isn't working. We need to become more democratic. The undemocratic aspects of our government are killing us and destroying our country. If the Electoral College cannot prevent someone like Trump from attaining office, what good is it. Where it not for the Electoral College Trump wouldn't be the president-elect. The funny thing about the Electoral College is Trump was against it before he was for it.

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    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
  15. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    What about the Democrat's performance? Reagan would be aghast at what the Republican Party has become, and you don't have to take my word for it. Just read what his sons have to say about the current state of the Republican Party.
     
  16. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    6,070
    Their parents have taken away the keys, might there be a reason?

    Certainly it has changed, but does that speak for the core principles of the party?
     
  17. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Whose parents took away their keys? And what does that have to do with Democratic performance?

    And what are the core values of the party, exactly? Does the Republican Party even have core values these days. The only Republican core value I see these days is to achieve power no matter the cost to country.

    The party still stands for tax cuts for the wealthiest. But other than those two things, what does the party stand for exactly? There is a always a lot of Republican talk about big government, but I have yet to find any Republican who could tell me what big government is in any meaningful way.
     
  18. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    6,070
    Joe Blow/The American Voter. It's a consumer driven market, and not many are buying what the Democratic Party is selling.



    https://www.gop.com/our-gop/
    https://www.gop.com/your-core-values/
     
  19. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    You are not making any sense. So according to you parents took the keys away from the American voter? What does a consumer driven market have to do with the topic at hand? Nothing...it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

    And let me remind you Republicans lost the popular vote this election cycle by about 3 million votes and you think "not many are buying what the Democratic Party is selling"....really? You are deluding yourself.

    Okay, you can copy links. I can assert that I'm Superman. But that doesn't make it so. The fact is that by its actions the modern Republican Party isn't the Party of Reagan. The Republican Party has lost its way. It no longer has a moral foundation. It's power at all cost. That's the Republican core value. That's not the way it use to be.

    Per my previous post, back in the 70s when a Republican president's operatives illegally broke into Democratic Party headquarters to steal information and the break in became known, Republicans in Congress didn't shy away from addressing the issue as they are now.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_scandal

    The Russia hacking of Democratic servers is very analogous to what happened in the 70s. My how things have changed within the Republican Party. Now a third of the Republican Party think Russian hacking of Americans servers in an attempt to influence our elections isn't a big deal. I'd bet if the shoe were on the other foot and Russians were trying to help Democrats rather than Republican, Republicans wouldn't be so nonchalant about it. It's just yet another case where Republicans have put the interests of the Republican Party above the interests of the country and the American people.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
  20. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    Joe, you are an example of all that is wrong with the Democratic Party at this time--denial, denial, denial. They lost the election(s). The Republicans hold control. We can't blame the Russians, the electoral vote. or voter fraud. All the blame sits squarely on the Democratic Party. Once that party gets a grip on the situation, they might have a chance in 2020, but I see no change taking place. If anything, they are digging in deeper and also digging their own grave.
     
  21. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    I would not say the republican have learned anything either, rather their years of power vacuum has been filled and elite and establishment republicans are horrified by what filled it. Perhaps they will control and temper Trump, perhaps not. The democrats although had the Clintons the neo-liberals retaining power after we Bernie voters failed to take over, with the lost of Clintons we have another short, but it is going to take time.
     
  22. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    6,070
    I agree. I also believe the Republicans have a lot to learn. I'm anticipating a crazy ride these next four years. At best it may clean the slate for the next election, and possibly a new hope might rise from the debris. My feeling is that people need to stop focusing on what we have now and start focusing on what they can bring to the table in the future. The Democratic Party needs to be retooled. Stop pissing and moaning about what they lost and start rebuilding from the ground up.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2016
  23. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Well here is the thing, the Democratic Party doesn't need to be retooled, and it's not pissing and moaning. The Democratic won the popular vote. Republicans lost the popular vote. The Republican Party still suffers from some very deep problems and this win will only mask those problems. Republicans are winning in key demographic groups. Their demographic is shrinking while the Democratic demographic is growing.
     

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