"More" Infinite ?? Universe

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by Detroit Guy, Sep 6, 2004.

  1. Detroit Guy Registered Member

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    It seems to be generally assumed that the universe is infinite, in both the macro and the micro (which I wont argue with for the purpose of this post, yet i've heard estimates of the "size" of the universe which seem irrelivant if its "inifinate")

    So, if the universe is infinite..... er... uh... how can it be "expanding" ? If it already "goes on forever" then its already "infinite" and would have no were else to go right?

    I guess , as usual its a conceptual problem on my part trying to get my mind around the overall "idea" of it, expanding rasin-muffins rising in the oven analogies never seemed to help.

    I remember sitting in physics lectures , having just sat through a 2 hour E-M specturm lecture and at the end of it thinkg yeah ok that was nice but what IS IT exactly?!! heh

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    Last edited: Sep 6, 2004
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  3. Pete It's not rocket surgery Moderator

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    When they talk about the Universe expanding, they're talking about what we see locally, not about what's happening on the edges.

    So, what do we see locally? And how does that mean the Universe is expanding?
     
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  5. Detroit Guy Registered Member

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    Hrmm, i seem to have it (perhaps in error) embedded in my mind that "generall all objects in the universe are moving away from each other" as a basic concept behind the post-big bang "expanding universe"

    Most everything i've seen/heard/read about the nature of the universe is summarizes as "its expanding in all directions" and "it is inifinate". I was under the impression (and continute to be) that the idea of an expanding universe, and its infinate nature , is an accepted Theory (almost to the point of being an accepted fact) on the order of the "theory" of Evolution.

    (and yes my spelling is horrific =D )
     
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  7. Pete It's not rocket surgery Moderator

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    Yep, that's the guts of it. Everywhere we look, things are moving away.The further away they are now, the faster they're moving away.

    Furthermore, we can tell that the situation would look the same for every other place in the Universe we can see. If we were sitting in a far away galaxy, we'd see the Milky Way and everything else moving away. The further away they are, the faster they go. Just like we see from here.

    And that is precisely what is meant by and expanding universe. Not that the edge of the Universe is moving further away. Only that every region of the Universe is moving away from every other region.
     
  8. Detroit Guy Registered Member

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    For some reason i feel like a statement like this should cause a catastrophic, global "pause" from all members of humanity to stop and ponder for a good 2,000 hours.

    When i first started hearing about these sorts of observations (high school?) i was amazed when very few of my peers seemed to think this stuff was interesting.

    Its some seriously mind boggling shit. WTF is wrong with people gaaah! =D
     
  9. gentle Registered Senior Member

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    Preview
    "Framework to the theory of everything!"
    The Universe is a ball of unwinding mass. Space is the gravitational wave, the lowest form of matter.
    Spacetime may not be the true way to understand the relationship between the concepts of matter, energy, time, space and speed. Relativity is the point of origin mass to energy transfer between bound matter (potential energy) and unbound matter (kenetic energy) the Gravity wave ( space). That is to say that matter evaporates, decays, into the gravitational wave creating the resulting continious actions of space, time and gravitational wave sychronization. Space is the gravitational wave being freed to its lowest form of matter. Time is the cosmological constant -the evaporation rate of matter. There is no real curved spacetime. It is gravitational wave sychronization, gravitational waves aligning through the path of least resistance that brings matter together, that is responsible time and space distortion as the waves elongate just as the dopler effect works in sounds. Instead of the sound wave being shortened or elongated when compared to moving objects the gravity wave is shortened or lengthened, red-blue shift which affects not the action of sound but the actions of time and space. Gravitational wave sychronization of bodies in motion change the relationship of the gravitational waves with respect to each other and the resulting actions of time and space change.Time and space are actions created by each discrete piece of matter as the matter evaporates into the gravitational wave. Space is the unfolding of matter. Time is the resulting action of the rate of evaporation of the gravitational wave. Relativity- Point of origin mass to energy transfer in wave form of bodies in motion Newton- Einstein- How it all works!
    When you have eliminated all other possibilities, Sherlock Holmes instructed, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the answer.
    Part of a paper-Copyright @ 2003, All Rights reserved
     
  10. John Connellan Valued Senior Member

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    What do u mean by infinite in the micro?
     
  11. fadingCaptain are you a robot? Valued Senior Member

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    I think he means infinitely small, as in you could delve inside leptons and quarks at at infinitely high magnifications. I'm not sure I agree. What happens if you go smaller than plank length?

    As for the expanding universe, it does appear the further something is away, the faster it is moving away from you. The reason for this is one of the big questions in cosmology.
     
  12. Detroit Guy Registered Member

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    I guess its a bit of an automatic asumption on my part that if the "big universe" its "inifinate" that it would also have to be infinate on the microscopic level (smaller and smaller) otherwise it would negate the idea of infinity. The universe would be rendered , in my mind "finite" if it had an "absolute smallest size".

    Yes my spelling is horrific. =D
     
  13. gentle Registered Senior Member

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    I believe the Universe, the very fabric, is finite and yet is the same essence at both ends of small and large. It is in my opinion unwinding to finality.
     
  14. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Spacetime may not be the true way to understand the relationship between the concepts of matter, energy, time, space,,,

    Oh, but it is.

    That is to say that matter evaporates, decays, into the gravitational wave creating the resulting continious actions of space, time and gravitational wave sychronization.

    You keep making this assertion yet it is something that has never been observed.

    Space is the gravitational wave being freed to its lowest form of matter.

    That makes no sense.

    Time is the cosmological constant -the evaporation rate of matter.

    So, the Earth is evaporating?

    There is no real curved spacetime.

    First you make assertions of that which has never been observed and go on to deny that which has been observed and verified by experiment. Do you walk backwards too?

    Time and space are actions created by each discrete piece of matter as the matter evaporates into the gravitational wave.

    BTW - evaporation is defined as a change into vapor, kind of like your theory.

    Relativity- Point of origin mass to energy transfer in wave form of bodies in motion Newton- Einstein- How it all works!

    Huh?

    When you have eliminated all other possibilities, Sherlock Holmes instructed, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the answer

    The problem is that you've eliminated the observed possibility, the mathematical possibility, the experimental possibility, the valid possibility.

    Part of a paper-Copyright @ 2003, All Rights reserved

    Copyright infringement should be the least of your worries.
     
  15. RawThinkTank Banned Banned

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    Space is infinite not Universe,
    If Universe was infinite then entire space should lit up with light coming form everywhere eye can see.
     
  16. FarThought Registered Member

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    If the universe was less than infinite, then conversely we would see no light at all since all matter would have an infinite amount of space between itself and anything else. Which one is it? I don't know, but you shouldn't say it's one or the other without knowing..
     
  17. Norman Atta Boy Registered Senior Member

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    I guess it doesn't matter whether the universe is 1 light year or 1,000 billion light years in diameter........We still haven't got the time and a tape measure long enough to measure it anyway.......

    Atta Boy
     
  18. Boris2 Valued Senior Member

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    >>>>If Universe was infinite then entire space should lit up with light coming form everywhere eye can see.

    olbers paradox i believe
     
  19. RawThinkTank Banned Banned

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    Hence we should use our minds.
     
  20. Norman Atta Boy Registered Senior Member

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    It's becoming very apparent the so-called expert 'minds' on the subject of the size of the universe are always changing their 'minds' on the size of the universe.........It just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger!

    Atta Boy

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  21. Boris2 Valued Senior Member

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    >>>>It's becoming very apparent the so-called expert 'minds' on the subject of the size of the universe are always changing their 'minds' on the size of the universe

    and isn't that great otherwise we would have dogma...like religion where no change of mind prevails.
     
  22. LostInThought7 Registered Senior Member

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    I believe that there are no boundaries to space or time. I believe that there is an infinite amount of mass/energy.

    Does anybody have anything that might change my mind?
     
  23. RawThinkTank Banned Banned

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    429
    I bet its directly proportional to the size of ones mind and the ability to adapt with new knowledge against the orthodox
     

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