Modernization cannot continue

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by darksidZz, Jun 13, 2011.

  1. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    I can get a bus pass through work for an entire year for $20.
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  3. kira Valued Senior Member

    I am guessing (and I have heard as well) that most working Americans must have a car, because the public transport is not that reliable (very less, does not reach vast area, and travel infrequently). If you look at the population density by countries, the USA's density is #179, with a density of 32 people/ or 83 people/sq.mi only.

    This is not the case with many countries in Europe or in Asia. The population density is very high, so there is a need for more public transports such as trains or buses.

    If we see in term of fuel efficiency, the public transport such as train is more efficient than car. Here is an example of fuel efficiency data:

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    Rail (commuter): 1.964 MJ per passenger-km
    Cars: 2.302 MJ per passenger-km

    Because of that, maybe more people prefer to work from home (in the USA).

    How much does it cost you to travel every month?? Here in Germany, public transport is very cheap. As a student (admitted, cheaper than other adult passengers, who must pay almost 2 times) I have to pay only 200 Euro per semester (that is about 1.1 Euro/day (or about 1.5 USD/day)) to travel the whole NRW province (covers an area of about 13,160 sq.mi) anytime I want. That is almost 200 times bigger than Washington DC (68 sq.mi). So, even IF let say I live in Aachen and must travel to Dortmund (took 3 hours 1 way by train) everyday, I am still travelling within the NRW province, and I still pay flat rate 1.5 USD/day. There is no need for anybody to work from home.

    Edit (additional):

    Here is additional illustration about transportation in the USA:

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    Your country is so big, so you must spend a lot of time in long highways to transport things or people from one place to another. In Asia, as in my country, I think the most common mode of transportation is by motorcycle and then public transport. In the Netherlands, I think many people are traveling by trains beside bicycles.
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2011
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  5. kira Valued Senior Member

    Is that the case for most people in the USA? If so, I believe there is no need to work from home.

    p.s.: the bus is the least efficient (from the table of fuel efficiency in my previous post)
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  7. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    No, it usually costs around $350. But I would have to get up two hours earlier.
  8. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    FR i wonder what your comments on the loss of the social side of work are if we are all working from home.

    For instance you assume that everyone has a family, they may well not. For men most of there friendship circle comes from either partners of there wife's friends or people at work. If you move everything to work from home you are effectivily isolating everyone which isnt healthy.
  9. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

    It's better to control the spread of disease.
  10. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

    I'm in the information industry (and have been since 1969) and I do work from home and have been for about 15 years so your guesses are wrong.

    And I'm well aware of what the info industry can do and also what it can't do over the next 30 years.

    And NO, most managers aren't as bad as you claim.
    To say the reason we aren't telecommuting is because we have clueless managers is, well CLUELESS.

    Your unsubstantiated claim was that the information industry will solve our oil problem, but you are vastly over-estimating how many people can work from home.

    First of all there are over 50 million people living in Rural environments in the US, many if not most of them tied to the over 2 million farms in the US

    Other people who can't work from home:
    People who work in general Goods Producing services, which is about 20 MILLION workers and that number is NOT expected to change much.

    People who work in Agriculture (field hands/pickers/ranchers/dairymen/poultry/meat packers,farm equipment manufacturers)
    Aircraft Building
    Airport support and maint/Pilots/FAs
    Car Manufacturing (and all the supporting car part manufacturing)
    Logging/Paper mills/Textile mills
    Mining/Smelting/metal Fabrication
    Train Engineers/Workers/Conductors
    Plumbers/Electricians/Telephone/Cable installers-repairers
    Ship Workers/Captains/Crew
    Truckers/Delivery services/USPS
    Car Mechanics/Salesman/Car Parts/Washing/Painting/Gas Stations
    Court room workers, Judges/lawyers/Clerks
    Jails/Prisons/Youth and Mental facilities/halfway houses
    Home Painters/Roofing/Siding/Windows/Decks/Pools
    Yard Workers/Trash pickup
    Road Workers/Road bridge construction
    Water/Sewer/Electrical Generation
    Construction Workers/Carpenters
    Restaurant Chefs/Waiters/Workers
    Real Estate Sales
    Garden Center
    Clothing Store/Hardware Store/Housewares/Jewelry stores (and of course that takes into account all that is sold online today and the growth in online sales)
    Hair Dressers/Nails/Salons
    TV-Radio station workers/Entertainers/Movie Theaters/Bars/Night clubs/Dance venues etc
    Athletes/Sports venues/Sport Stores/
    Hospital workers/Doctors/Nurses/Lab Techs (and you can examine but not really treat via video)
    Dentists and Hygienists (and no, there won't be a home hygienist anytime soon)
    Vets and Grooming and pet store workers
    Pharmacists/Drug Store workers
    Most Scientists that work in labs or with expensive equipment
    Oil & Gas drilling/Refining
    Most Schools and Universities

    Etc etc etc

    I pointed out to you why you are wrong, but feel free to show actual trend lines that support your contention that working from home will more than offset the oil usage of the extra 50 million people we will have in the US by 2030.

    Last edited: Sep 7, 2011
  11. adoucette Caca Occurs Valued Senior Member

    Well that statisic is interesting, but maybe a little misleading.
    About 250 million of our 310 million live in either Urban or Suburban locations.
    The fact that we have Alaska, and huge plains in the midwest and vast stretches of mountains in the West doesn't have much to do with most people's daily commute.
    Still, I think you will find that we are more Suburban than Urban and have somewhat longer commutes, on average, than your typical European.

    Well again, that statistic might mean more if you had a train stop at your door, but for most of us we have to drive to and from the train station, and for most of us, that makes it less efficient overall in terms of time and energy. So, if a train is convenient, then it makes sense to take it, but in a typical suburban city like Atlanta, the train only works for a small portion of the population, and not at all for the ~50% of commuters that commute, not from Suburb to City but across Suburbs.

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    Last edited: Sep 7, 2011
  12. scheherazade Northern Horse Whisperer Valued Senior Member


    Your post #147.

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