Modern belief in nonsense?

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by Dinosaur, Oct 5, 2016.

  1. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    Science didn't need to be formalized, with rules, in order to be used. Every time one of the kittens explores a new section of the back porch, they're doing science, math and cartography.
    Reality doesn't require "belief"; it requires awareness and reason.
    Anything you have "belief" or "faith" in either has a component of snake oil, or you're blowing it up into more than its function can fulfill.
     
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  3. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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  5. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    No, he just used it. Lots of people have figured things out throughout history without using a "time machine."
    Correct. The scientific method involves:
    1) Generating a hypothesis, like "angular measurement of the sun can be used to determine the size of the Earth."
    2) Formulating an experiment, like measuring the angle at two places far apart simultaneously (not easy in his time.)
    3) Analyzing the results
    4) Determining if the results support the hypothesis

    Correct. Following instructions written by someone else (who used the scientific method to determine those directions) is not a description of the scientific method. Nor is it anything like what Eratosthenes did.

    Now, if you had the first car ever, and you ran some experiments to prove that you needed to change the oil every 7500 miles to prevent engine damage, then you would be using it. That's beyond your skill set, of course - but others can (and in fact have) done such experiments, which is why you follow their directions.
     
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  7. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    What drives any belief that is contrary to evidence that suggests otherwise? Sometimes the obvious is denied because our social environment demands conformity. What will they say about us 400 or 200 years in the future?
     
  8. river Valued Senior Member

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    The will say that money and power controlled wisdom .
     
  9. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    In your opinion, how is money and power used to control wisdom?
     
  10. river Valued Senior Member

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    Mainstream take on Human ancient history ; as mythology rather than real events .
     
  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    All kinds of ways. Dmitri Shostakovich, whose Soviet handler made his speeches for him during his Cold War American visit, hand copied the ninth line of this sonnet into the margin of one of his great works (his ninth symphony? so memory has it):

    Sonnet 66

    Tired with all these, for restful death I cry,
    As, to behold desert a beggar born,
    And needy nothing trimm'd in jollity,
    And purest faith unhappily forsworn,
    And guilded honour shamefully misplaced,
    And maiden virtue rudely strumpeted,
    And right perfection wrongfully disgraced,
    And strength by limping sway disabled,
    And art made tongue-tied by authority,
    And folly doctor-like controlling skill,
    And simple truth miscall'd simplicity,
    And captive good attending captain ill:
    Tired with all these, from these would I be gone,
    Save that, to die, I leave my love alone.
     
  12. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    You need to explain what it is in ancient history you find truth.
     
  13. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Your rather philosophical, pontification as usual never states any evidence:
    There's an old saying river: It goes something like this....
    "You can fool some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you will never fool all of the people all of the time".
    Your take on ancient history is rather amusing to say the least, going on your past rantings re giants and Aliens etc.
    Let me again say in no uncertain terms: Personally, I'm absolutely sure we ain't alone in this big wide wonderful universe that we inhabit.
    In saying that, I also recognise that as of this time, we do not have convincing evidence of other life elsewhere. So, why do I believe otherwise? [1] The stuff of life has been found everywhere we look: [2] The uncountable number of potential habitats where life may have evolved. [3] The near infinite [if not infinite] extent of the Universe.
    But I also accept that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and as such, my belief is just that: My belief, which btw is shared by most reputable cosmologists.

    As far as your claims re Aliens on Earth etc, again while past contact may have been possible, we have no conclusive or good evidence to show that it has ever happened.
    Let me add that I have read Von-Daniken's book, "The Chariots of the Gods" and let me say that well before he was exposed as a charlatan internationally, I had reached the same conclusion privately.
    I have also read the book re "The Burmuda Triangle" by Charles Shultz.
    Again more fabricated sensationalism, for the sake of money as you suggest.

    Sorry river old son, the accepted ancient history we all learn is pretty close to the mark.
    Here's a nice link that explains all I would like to explain to you, but I neither have the time nor the inclination, knowing that you believe that I have my head in the sand, as you have often stated when ever you have been backed into a corner.......

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    http://www.skeptic.com/downloads/why-people-see-ghosts.pdf
    The Science Behind
    WHY PEOPLE SEE GHOSTS
    (AND GODS, ANGELS, DEMONS, AND ALIENS AND WHY THEY FLOAT, FLY, AND TRAVEL OUT OF THEIR BODIES)

    "500 years ago demons haunted our world, and incubi and suc- cubi tormented their victims as they lay asleep in their beds. 200 years ago spirits of the departed made bedside visits. More re- cently green and grey aliens began to molest people in their sleep. What is going on here? Are these mysterious visitors in our world or in our minds? They are in our minds. All experience is mediated by the brain, which consists of about a hundred billion neurons with a thousand trillion synaptic connections between them. No wonder the brain is capable of such sub- lime ideas as evolution and big bang cosmology. But it also means that under a variety of con- ditions the brain is capable of generating extraordinary experiences that are not real".
     
  14. river Valued Senior Member

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    Typical old thinking , sorry pad old son but your old thinking , is just that , I'm well past your mindset .
     
  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    I would add to the little ditty, ""You can fool some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you will never fool all of the people all of the time" that at times you fool no one.
    Particularly your own old archaic thinking re Electric/Plasma nonsense, ghosts, goblins, giants, and all things paranormal and supernatural.

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  16. river Valued Senior Member

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    You have an old mindset pad son .
     
  17. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Old but correct and according to latest evidence.

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    You stick to your ghosts and goblins and ancient Aliens etc etc etc

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  18. river Valued Senior Member

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    Well I'm more advanced in my thinking pad son .

    So I'l do my thing ; you do yours pad son . Leave it at that .
     
  19. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Many things in actual fact....
    [1] A religious agenda and attempt of "god of the gaps" reasoning.
    [2] Tall poppy syndrome or the envy factor and the phobia of being against anything formulated by the greats of mainstream just for the sake of it.
    [3] Delusions of Grandeur, and inflated egos, and the belief that you know better than the professionals.
    [4] General crankdom and quackerism that exists in the mindset of some people.
    [5] Tied to 4, having a conspiracy mindset, and believing that governments and the whole world are out to fool everyone.

    In part that maybe correct, particularly in general society, but people do have a choice also in a democracy.
    Science of course is a discipline in continued progress and is open depended on new evidence, experimental results and observations.
    But as per point 2, when people decide to deny the obvious, just for the sake of it, that is very stupid and actually defeats any purpose to which they believe they are trying to achieve: But still it happens, even on this forum.

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    Last edited: Oct 9, 2016
  20. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    In our world, the word obvious has little meaning. It's like the word crazy, how can we possibly apply it to anything anymore? I'm almost willing to bet that those words will be deleted from our language in the near future, because they will eventually have no relevance.

    Gods, angels, aliens? I don't know other than what human nature has shown us over time. In a world where a 56-year-old man leaves his wife and children, declares himself a 6-year-old girl, and is championed by the media; can we really talk shit about someone's theory on the origin of spirituality? We're living in an age when people can flip their gender like a light switch. Really, how more credible is that than someone suggesting we were visited by aliens?
     
  21. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

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    I'll give you that that's an odd trend, but I'm hoping these recent anti-science trends are just fads and in the big picture/long term they probably are not significant. It is only about the past 10 or 20 years that these things have had a resurgence.
    That certainly doesn't follow and you should know why, since you are such a person....although I guess people can't see/diagnose their own pathology. The short/obvious answer is that some people reject science, so it doesn't matter that science has shown nonsense to be nonsense if people aren't listening. But the deeper issue/pathology is why do people like you reject science in favor of nonsense? And if the trend is truly increasing, why for that too?

    The answer may just be literally right here in front of us: the internet enables nonsense peddlers such as yourself to gain an audience and gullible people deluged by nonsense can't always tell the difference. And the nonsense peddlers and consumers are often the same people (again, you), so the delusions are self-feeding The 20 year history of the modern internet and 10 years of social networking alone may be enough to explain it.
     
  22. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    We have no real scientific evidence for any of the above.
     
  23. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    What evidence do you need?

     
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