modern armor and defense

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by James Kidder, Feb 25, 2004.

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  1. BetweenThePoints Registered Senior Member

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    I doubt any kind of genetic engineering will happen on a large scale, instead of maybe in the distant future. Most people simply wouldn't stand for it, I mean, the moral issues would probably be more of a barrier than the purely scientific issues. People don't seem to realize that the barrier between theory and reality is often not the inability to actually create certain technologies, but rather, the lack of will to do it.

    on purely theoretical lines though, I think that stealth technology will far outpace armour technology, mostly because it is much more desirable to not be seen. No matter how armoure a soldier is, he still doesn't want to be hit. I'm sure that armour will advance, but not as rapidly as more indirect measures.
     
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  3. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    BetweenThePoints,

    What about willing genetic and cybernetic engineering not of embryos but of adults?
     
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  5. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    You know what really works great in avoiding high energy dismemberment and burning? Don't piss people off.
     
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  7. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    Military Develops Liquid Body Armor [from slashdot.org]
    Posted by simoniker on Friday April 23, @06:07PM
    from the wet-n-wild dept.
    kai5263499 writes "Military.com has an article about a new liquid body armor the U.S. Army Research Laboratory has developed. According to Dr. Eric Wetzel, the project coordinator: 'The key component of liquid armor is a shear thickening fluid. STF is composed of hard particles suspended in a liquid. The liquid, polyethylene glycol, is non-toxic, and can withstand a wide range of temperatures. Hard, nano-particles of silica are the other components of STF. This combination of flowable and hard components results in a material with unusual properties'."
     
  8. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Does not sound that new, I have heard of oils in CVT in cars and snowmobiles that under no load is like a oil but under load it become hard, thus giving friction between the belt and cones.
     
  9. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    yeah, but this a is a lot more sophisticated technology and mind that this here instantly stops bullets, not just becomes harder (in a much longer period of time(I speculate this), like the oily ones. this here is with nanoparticles and is the so called smart material.
     
  10. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    oh the oli becomes hard instently under high pressure, I just don't think it becomes hard enough to stop a bullet, also considering the oil is a thin film.
     
  11. James Kidder Registered Senior Member

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    Can a sprectra shield stop this or is something new needed if they come into wide use?

    ShockRounds(TM) -- Non-Lethal "Electric" Bullets -- Laboratory Demonstration
    MDM Group, Inc. (MDDM) has today released a short video clip (See: www.shockrounds.com) of the ShockRounds(TM) bench test conducted by EDO Electro-Ceramics, Utah, a division of NYSE listed EDO Corporation.

    DALLAS, TX (PRWEB) April 2, 2004 -- MDM Group, Inc. (MDDM) has today released a short video clip (See: www.shockrounds.com) of the ShockRounds(TM) bench test conducted by EDO Electro-Ceramics, Utah, a division of NYSE listed EDO Corporation. EDO Corporation is a US defense contractor and supplier of highly engineered products for governments and industries internationally. EDO Ceramics is the leading and largest producer of piezoelectric materials in the USA.

    The bench test demonstrates the viability and potential of ShockRounds(TM) confirming a platform for the next phase of development. During the course of the next 4-6 weeks it is expected that the production of initial ShockRounds(TM) test product will be commissioned for later testing with conventional firearms.

    ShockRounds(TM) are a potential breakthrough product for the law enforcement industry, the military and border control and anti-terrorism initiatives, due to their versatility and multiple applications. When fired, a ShockRounds(TM) specialized bullet generates an extremely high voltage charge. This voltage discharges instantly upon impact causing immediate target incapacitation.

    ShockRounds(TM) "electrified" standard bullets and rubber bullets are forecast to:
    -- Make law enforcement safer and more certain Save lives and ensure less collateral damage
    -- Reduce injuries and fatalities
    -- Enable far better control and effective enablement in aircraft, public places, arenas etc.
    -- Provide an effective anti terrorism and border control weapon
    -- Potential to decrease legal liability -- through reduced injuries and fatalities

    ShockRounds(TM) technology was developed by Technosis, a member of the Girvan Business Venture Acceleration Network ('B-VAN"). See: www.girvan.org and search "Technosis."

    As announced previously, MDM Group has entered into a conditional agreement with Harrington Group Limited (HGR), a company listed on the Australian Stock Exchange (HGR.AX) to commercialize the company's ShockRounds(TM) non-lethal technology. See Press Release of February 24, 2004.

    Safe Harbor Statement
    The information in this release, other than historical information, may be considered forward-looking statements within the provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Projection and other forward-looking statements and management expectations regarding future events and/or financial performance of the Company -- although given in good faith -- are inherently uncertain and actual events and/or results may differ materially.

    For further information see: www.shockrounds.com and www.mdmgroupinc.com.

    MDM Group is featured on www.Homelanddefensestocks.com a global investment research portal for defense and security.

    Contact:
    MDM Group Inc
    Trevor Ruehs, 866-894-3910
    Trevor@mdmgroupinc.com

    SOURCE: MDM Group, Inc
     
  12. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    19,083
    here's an update on the subject

    Electric armour' vaporises anti-tank grenades and shells

    more ->
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/08/19/nmod19.xml
     
  13. aw3524 Registered Senior Member

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    73
    I think the ceramics they use are called "alumina". Check out this article @ HowStuffWorks
    http://people.howstuffworks.com/body-armor.htm
     
  14. Roman Banned Banned

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    11,560
    After you develop all your fancy armors, they'll develope a ray gun that causes really bad cancer, really fast. Seriously, have a high powered device that fires really nasty eletromagnetic radiation. Be able to change the frequency, so any armor that's developed to block a specific frequency wouldn't work.

    What if a shape-charge rocket full of water was fired ont he electric armor? short circuit?
     
  15. slotty Colostomy-its not my bag Registered Senior Member

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    Try this, fill a mixing bowl half full of water, mix in flour till it is very viscous. You can push your fingers in it, but if you make a fist and punch it ( i`m serious) its like thumping a wall. The mix just absorbs the punch. Something to do with particles in suspension i think.I suppose this is the liquid armour concept?
     
  16. Gifted World Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    2,113
    So far as I know, it's corn starch, not flour. But yes, I think that's how it's supposed to work.
     
  17. Facial Valued Senior Member

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    2,225
    I remember I did an experiment like that once. Pretty amazing stuff.
    If you slap water really hard, with the palm of your hand, it almost feels solid too for a split second.
     
  18. Facial Valued Senior Member

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    2,225
    A lot of the stuff you guys talk about is really expensive.

    I've recently noticed this : The aluminum in aluminum cans is really strong. If you can laminate 1 inch of the aluminum sheets with epoxy or something, I think it would be stronger than its equivalent thickness in steel.

    And I believe shopping bags are even stronger for their weight. A related material to high density polyethylene (HDPE) is ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene (UMWPE), which has replaced Kevlar in bulletproof vests.

    Just some ideas. Sorry, but I like things being homemade

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  19. talk2farley Registered Senior Member

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    "Electric armor" only defeats liquid copper penetrators, as used in the Russian shape charged RPGs. It is a specific solution to a specific problem, and not, by any means, a force field in the Star Wars sense. The molten copper penetrator is vaporized only because it conducts the strong electric field. Less accomodating metals, such as the tungsten or uranium used in long rod penetrators, have too high a resistance for this method to work.

    In regards to the M1 tank series, all models (M1A1, M1A2, and the proposed M1A2 SEP, or Systems Enhancement Package) use the British-design Chobham armor, which is simply an advanced materials composite. The principle players are steel plates sandwiched between plastic spacers, with the idea being that a long rod penetrator will breach the outer steel shell, vaporizing it. A great deal of forward, penetrating energy will be lost as it liquifies and expands to fill the empty plastic spacer, with the remaining thermal energy contained by an inner steel layer.

    The famed depleted uranium is not native to any specific model in the M1 series (A1, A2, SEP), but is instead available as an add-on kit (like explosive reactive armor) in something called the Enhanced Protection Package, or EPP. The details are classified. It is believed, however, that the kit features four DU plates, which are mounted on the turret (Two forward, left and right of the main gun, and a pair of larger plates on the port and starboard sides), which is otherwise the least well protected part of the MBT.

    The Stryker series of LAVs features a composite of ceramic outer plates sandwiched on top of traditional hard steel armor. The ceramic, which is itself composed of numerous individual tiles, is not designed to resist the forward energy of a kinetic round. Instead, the tile itself will shatter on impact, transfering the forward energy over the surface of the entire tile, rather than a specific low-diameter area. This works well against long rod penetrators, but not so well against shape-charged weapons, ala the aforementioned RPG.

    For those, we have Explosive Reactive Armor, or ERA. Developed by the Israelis following the Six Day War, ERA is an addon kit for armored vehicles using "shape charges in a box." On impact, the shape charge detonates, funneling its explosive energy outwards, and away from the tank. The energy is sufficient to defeat its brethen, shape charged penetrators, which rely more on their near-plasma state to burn through armor than on their forward energy to pierce it. However, long rod penetrators have sufficient forward energy to carry themselves through this and still defeat any reasonable thickness of hard steel.

    There really is no be-all-end-all to modern armor. The doctrine of choice is composite kits, which can be added or removed from an armored vehicle as a given situation requires, and each of which defeats a specific weapon. It would be nice to build a vehicle which had the design concessions to naturally defeat any conceivable threat. Unfortunately, weight, cost, and the nature of the armors themselves are somewhat prohibitive.
     
  20. ddovala Pi is exactly 3 Registered Senior Member

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    141
    How about super strong armor on personel, and to counteract the weight, electronic assistance for moving (system detects how you are moving, and uses an electric motor to help). An idea
     
  21. d3u5_3x_m4ch1n4 Registered Member

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    First of all, on that electric armor....what is military grade plasma made of? That's right! Superheated, Electrofied gases. Now, I suppose we could call that molten copper superheated and....well duh! how silly of me! It's an electric shield. no. sounds like bullsh!t. On top of that, what is an explosion? Contained, expanding gases. The evaporated copper could essentially fill the layers in the tank armor resulting in a mobile flak bomb. Neat, but not for the driver of the tank

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    Electric shielding is only effective on a fur principle. A carpet of stiff, wire fur is applied to the object. The furs alternate between positive and negative. Carpet-o-fire. >

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    Electro-Active liquid armor is much more practical.
     
  22. Gifted World Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    I've heard that ceramics are used in Chobam armor too. The point was that the ceramic would counter the shaped charges, as they don't conduct the heat that is the main cutter in these warheads.
     
  23. Csel Poiuy Registered Member

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    12
    they are working on gels and semi solids that absorb a huge amount of impact and can reform if pierced. combine this with kevlar and ceramics and you've got some pretty good armor. Also nanofibers hold promise, and dont forget active camo. not exactly armor, but active camo will help soldier avoid getting shot.
     
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