misogyny

Discussion in 'Comparative Religion' started by mathman, Feb 20, 2019.

  1. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Well, you did, even if you didn't mean it that way.


    My stake in this is that I don't like flawed assertions.

    Anyway, it's cleared up. I don't wish to derail the discussion.
     
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  3. wegs With brave wings, she flies . . . Valued Senior Member

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    No, I didn’t. I wouldn’t post something that I don’t believe. You’re inserting something I never posted. Or inferred.

    Nowhere did I suggest that atheism leads to sexism or is somehow correlated.
     
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  5. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    All right. I over-read into it.
     
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  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Yes. And then people come to their own conclusions about it. Some accept it; some don't.
    You've never heard a Dawkins lecture?
     
  8. wegs With brave wings, she flies . . . Valued Senior Member

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    lol True.
     
  9. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    C'mon, you're being kinda obtuse here. While there may not be an "atheist movement" as cohesive and organizational as most religious traditions, surely you're familiar with New Atheism <<<, and some of what that entails?

    Moreover, no one has really suggested that there is any sort of correlation between sexism/misogyny and atheism, buuuuuttt:
    https://www.salon.com/2017/07/29/fr...ages-how-new-atheism-slid-into-the-alt-right/
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
  10. wegs With brave wings, she flies . . . Valued Senior Member

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    I wonder if much of this has to do with many men (''new atheists'') following the red pill/men's activism narratives, which promote MGTOW and anti-feminism. I don't think atheism correlates with that (or causes it), as much as it's just a coincidence that the two philosophies seem to be pairing together.
     
  11. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Never heard of it.
     
  12. origin In a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect. Valued Senior Member

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    I have heard snippets I think. I think he is kind of nutty.
    You surely aren't proposing that the atheism is taught like religion, are you? That position would be indefensible. I am sure there are probably atheist support groups or some such nonsense, but there's are no atheist churches or schools that teach the tenets of atheism. Sure there are teachers or people that present there view on atheism or even try to get people to become atheist, but that is not like the religious institutions.

    For crying out loud there is not that much that can be said about atheism that would take more than an hour or so. The atheist bible would be something like: "In the beginning there was God. Nuh-uh! The end." The whole bible could be written on a 3 x 5 card.

    I assume most atheist or agnostics are like me. I very, very rarely talk or even think about being an atheist, except for these online discussions where people bring it up.

    I say believe what you want just don't try to impose a belief, that contradicts evidence, on me.
     
  13. wegs With brave wings, she flies . . . Valued Senior Member

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  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    ?? Right; there's nothing formal to teach.

    But atheists do get together and worship. More than half of the people at the church I go to (a Unitarian church) are atheists. And the church is quite organized; they even have a daycare center and a preschool for kids. Atheism is discussed quite a bit, and it's not just "there's no God! Bye."
    See above.
    Given that there are thousands of posts here about atheism, probably covering millions of words, that's provably not true.
    You'd probably be quite happy at our church, then.
     
  15. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Exactly. Except in the presence of believers, people have no reason to talk about things they don't believe. Or form opinions about, beyond natural skepticism.
    People who don't believe in unicorns don't have a club for not believing in unicorns.
    People who don't believe in faeries or in Leprechauns don't spend much time thinking about the non-existence of faeries or Leprechauns. Nor do they organize meetings to discuss these things.

    The number of things to not believe in in the universe has no upper bound.


    *(It's unfortunate that it looks like I'm mocking or minimalizing the concept of God by comparing it to Leprechauns, unicorns or Santa. It's not intentional mockery. For a skeptic to describe his/her stance to a non-skeptic, one needs to analogize with something that most people generally agree probably does not exist in the absence of sufficient evidence. Apologies for the appearance of disrespect.)
     
  16. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not sure what to call them except hypocrites in the nicest possible way. United is not an atheist religion.
    If they are gathering under the United banner, they are gathering based on the religion, not on their lack of belief in God.
     
  17. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    The only thing said is "You're making the extraordinary claim, show us the evidence."

    L.Ron Hubbard created a religion. A lot of people have criticized it. The fact that a lot of people have had to speak out against this charlatan (because so many were supporting him) does not mean that Hubbard-bashing has become its own religion. Criticism of an unfounded assertion does not qualify as a world view.

    Same can be said for any other claims that don't withstand analysis.
     
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  18. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    ?? Right. It's not an atheist religion, or a Christian religion, or a Hindu religion. Its tenets are based on beliefs from all of those. You'd be welcome anyway, even if you think everyone there is a hypocrite.
    Oh, far more than that has been said.

    I didn't claim it did. I was responding to your assertion that "there is not that much that can be said about atheism that would take more than an hour or so." That is provably false.
     
  19. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I was a member of the United for many years. I really enjoyed the community and the singalongs (minister was a hippy-dippy musician.)

    A Very Bad Thing happened (unrelated), causing us to leave in disgust.

    But years later, I tried going to another United to see if I could regain that sense of community. Unfortunately, I felt like an impostor.
    I can see God as a positive philosophy, especially when it brings people together for a common good. I just don't think it has to be literally real.
    I think I would very much enjoy your church.
     
  20. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, I don't think there's much of a connection between atheism and misogyny, just as there's no real connection between music and misogyny, or gaming..., or medicine..., or tech..., or... But when people organize... I mean, seriously, what the hell is an atheist convention? Perhaps I'm being hasty in my assessment, but I just don't see myself attending one of those.

    That said, just how many people really align themselves with such a "movement?" Most sources name Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, and Daniel Dennett as the figureheads. Apart from Dennett, they're all a bit nutty (or got nutty, as with Hitchens). But Harris is by far the worst. Think of the most cringeworthy remark you can make on any subject--but especially re: gender or race--and Sam Harris has probably said it. Seriously, when Joe Rogan--former host of Fear Factor and professional obese thumb--embraces you, it's time to seriously rethink your life choices.

    But it (sexism and misogyny) is hardly intrinsic, and certainly not unique, to atheistic culture (I guess) or religious ones, for that matter. Consider medicine and the medical industry, for instance: Viagra is bigger than Jesus and the Beatles combined--and I don't mean in that everyone loves it or everyone's buying it, but rather, everyone's pushing it. One would think that erectile dysfunction is the leading cause of death. The medical industry is like a case study in phallocentrism. (My mother had a knee replacement ~15 years back which has caused her nothing but trouble. Why? 'Cuz my mother is 5'2" and 100 pounds, and the knees were made for ~6', ~160 pound men. Where matters pertaining to women's health are even acknowledged or funded for research, it's almost invariably pertaining solely to reproductive health, 'cuz, you know, that's all that matters.)
     
  21. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I think the issue is that, in many religions, the sexism is encoded in the practice.
    Such as cardinals not being allowed to be female.

    Sure, there's a pervasive culture of passive sexism worldwide (including theists, atheists, agnostics, musicians, medicine, gaming, tech, etc.), but some structures have it actively institutionalized.
     
  22. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    I would argue that in medicine, at least (of the given examples), it is also very much actively institutionalized. And with some of the others, it certainly has been in the past.
     
  23. wegs With brave wings, she flies . . . Valued Senior Member

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    Like the US government, and why the US hasn't yet had a female President?
     

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