million, billion, trillion... then what?

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by qfrontier, Aug 14, 2002.

  1. John Connellan Valued Senior Member

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    I think that there should be a limit to numbers. I think the number of Planck volumes in the universe should be the upper limit for numbers (which I think is 1.92 x 10^184 for the observable universe).

    This would mean there should be no numbers an order of magnitude bigger than googol (e.g. googolplex) as there is no need for them. Numbers like this will never count anything.

    I know we do not yet know the number of Planck volumes in the whole universe but whatever number it is should be the limit.
     
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  3. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    I don't know about that. Since I consider one of the possibilities to be that the universe is infinite, then we could still find ourselves dealing with numbers much bigger than a googolplex. Maybe our "observable universe" and the unobservable portion that you would add to account for the difference between the observed universe and the whole finite thing are just a tiny arena of a potentially infinite greater universe :shrug:.
     
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  5. madanthonywayne Morning in America Staff Member

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    Theyre going to coin a new term for what comes after a trillion, it's an Obama. It's what we'll have to use to measure the US national debt if his "stimulus" package passes.
     
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  7. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    How about calling it an obillian?
     
  8. Pete It's not rocket surgery Moderator

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    :yay: 10! 10 bumps! Hooray! :yay:

    Since this thread was started seven years ago, it has gone dormant and been reawakened on ten separate occasions.

    I think that's cause for celebration! :xctd:
     
  9. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    Some threads are just too good to let die

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  10. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    You heard about the time that Cheney walked into the Oval Office and said, "Mr. President, yesterday was a terrible day in Iraq. Three Brazilian soliders were killed." Bush's face turned ashen and he crumpled in his chair. Everyone was really impressed that he took it so hard, and they all politely left except Cheney. When they were gone he raised his teary head and said, "Dick, you know that I was never all that good in math, or in any other subject for that matter. Just exactly how much is a brazillion?"
    Since the number of zeroes is divisible by three, there's already a handy name for that number. It's a duotrigintillion, three times (32+1) zeroes. (Check my Latin, anybody!)
    But we use numbers for more than counting. We use them for probability. How many possible ways could all the elementary particles in the universe be arranged?
    That must be a quote of an ancient post. But in case there's anyone reading this thread who doesn't know, check the Wikipedia article on orders of magnitude.

    After trillion comes quadrillion, quintillion, sextillion, etc. They use the Latin words for the ordinal numbers.
     
  11. thinking Banned Banned

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    the Universe is infinite , but so is energy/matter , as far as existence goes

    but also the Universe has limits

    for instance on limits;

    I give you a task , I ask you to knock down the CN Tower, starting at its base , with a hockey stick , can you do it ?

    once the stick it is broken no repairs are allowed

    therefore the task is impossible and therefore it shows the Universe has limits
     
  12. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    I had to laugh pretty hard at that :roflmao:
    I respect your grasp of the language and the numbers, and I don't doubt you about the duotrigintillion. However, as you are also certainly aware, some numbers that have zeros that are divisible by three go by more than one name. Billion in America is a trillion in Europe I believe. I don't remember the European name for what America calls a billion, but there is a different name for it.

    Therefore it shouldn't be considered unprecedented to have two names for the 99 zero number, right; duotrigintillion and bezillion.
     
  13. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed, there are limits. But I bet you can't say that a bezillion times

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  14. thinking Banned Banned

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    no need to

    limits remember !!
     
  15. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    It's the other way around. What we call a trillion they call a billion. They group the zeroes by sixes instead of threes and they start right off with "million" being 10*6, a somewhat more elegant system. 10*6=million, 10*12=billion, 10*18=trillion, 10*24=quadrillion, etc. For them, 10*15=one thousand billion.
    They just call it one thousand million. However, since wealth of one billion dollars (by the American paradigm) has become attainable, and there are now dozens of billionaires living (by American terminology), the rest of the world is slowly adapting to our terminology just to avoid confusion. Not to mention the awkwardness of saying "thousand-millionaire."

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    Indeed, but the names are much more prosaic. One duotrigintillion (American terminology) would by one thousand sexadecillion in European terminology. (Again, everyone please feel free to check my Latin, it's not one of my strongest languages.)

    BTW: The French use our terminology too.

    BTW2: The Germans don't say ein tausend millionen, they call it ein milliard. Check out the German postage stamps during the Great Depression.
     
  16. John99 Banned Banned

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    at the endo th e day it is all just patterns and repetition.
     
  17. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    It is interesting how much there is to discover about numbers and different cultures. How many zeros does one thousand sexadecillion have and is the American counterpart the same or are we still off by a thousand?

    BTW1:This is what Google now has not far from the top when you google "bezillion": A bezillion is a googol divided by 10. A googol is a 1 followed by 100 zeros, and a bezillion is a 1 followed by 99 zeros. ... and the link is to this thread and my post naming the "bezillion". It is history now

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    A bezillion is a googol divided by 10. A googol is a 1 followed by 100 zeros, and a bezillion is a 1 followed by 99 zeros. ... Now a bezillion becomes finite instead of just some exaggerated vague expression like that pesky bazillion or even gazillion.
     
  18. John Connellan Valued Senior Member

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    Very true Fraggle!
     
  19. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Well it was I who rendered it that way and my intention was to come out with 99 zeroes. If it's wrong, it's my own fault. Feel free to do your own derivation.
    Again, my intention was to have everything come out the same. Everyone is invited to peer-review my work, this is after all a place of science.
    SciForums is an academy of only tertiary and quaternary research--and that only on a good day.

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    After all, much of what is posted as supporting evidence for hypotheses expressed here is taken from Wikipedia, a source that is specifically excluded as valid reference material by the entire U.S. educational system. I've written Wikipedia articles and I've corrected sometimes-glaring errors in dozens of them.

    So... Google --> SciForums --> Wikipedia --> Contributions of dubious validity, eventually edited into some semblance of scholarship --> by contributors like yours truly. How many degrees of separation does that make between a Google hit and "history"?

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    I liked it better when it was vague. Many cultures find a need for quasi-numbers and their languages have analogs to our "umpteen" and "eleventy."

    I especially liked Scrooge McDuck with his "three cubic acres of money." Since an acre is a two-dimensional unit of measurement, there's no such thing as a cubic acre.

    The metric prefixes for powers of ten are getting pretty silly: exa-, yatta-, zetta. What are they gonna come up with next, now that they've gotten to Z?
     
  20. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    But you have the highest of standards and the greatest depth of knowledge and research acumen when it comes to these type of things. To me, defining a bezillion as having 99 zeros gives me one little patch of territory, one little contribution to bringing order to the universe.

    And defining "bezillion" isn't taking anything away from the cultural need for quasi-numbers since it had no standing as a quasi-number before I defined it. It is not even in my on-line dictionary. Oh sure, there was bazillion and gazillion, but no "bezillion". My work is additive and takes nothing away from the language IMHO.

    Of course "bezillion" will never be able to compete with McDuck and his "three cubic ares of money", but I am a mere mortal.
     
  21. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    The first syllable is unstressed so the vowel becomes a schwa. Bazillion and bezillion are pronounced identically.
     
  22. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    Hmm, yes, I guess you are right. At first I found that distressing since I was counting on naming my own number. Granted it is a second name and no where near as official as duotrigintillion which you mentioned earlier. But after some thought I can see where bezillion and bazillion being pronounced the same may have some merit. A person could casually mention the number "bezillion" around the water cooler or at a cocktail party, and then point out the difference between the two as a point of interest. Any argument could be resolved by a quick "google" of bezillion to show that it was named by yours truly to be a googol divided by 10.

    Maybe some day it will be used in a scrabble dictionary. That is when I will know that a bezillion has arrived.
     
  23. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    The Official Scrabble Players Dictionary or OSPD includes all the words in the five most respected American English dictionaries, so all you have to do is get your word into one of them.

    However, the OSPD is not actually used in any country's Scrabble tournaments. American tournaments use the Official Club and Tournament Word List. I have no idea how it is compiled. Politics and political correctness play a part; there was a big furore over the benighted slang verb "jew" in lower-case, as "to jew down" a price.
     

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