Michael Odent on "Homo, the Marine Chimpanzee"

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by CEngelbrecht, Jan 22, 2018.

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  1. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Our skin delaminates upon prolonged exposure to water. How can we possibly be adapted to an aquatic life? The water was where we found food, and we happened to be smart enough to exploit it from the shore or in boats, or in short swims.
     
    Gawdzilla Sama likes this.
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  3. CEngelbrecht Registered Senior Member

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    Human aquaticism would've occured both in fresh and sea water, at different times during hominoid evolution. The exact timing is still being debated, but hominins would have had to feed on salt water fauna from East African seashores for Homo erectus to grow the first really large hominin brain from around 2mya and on. This at least several million years after they would've evolved bipedalism wading in shallow freshwaters of the African hinterland. Is a contemporary reasonable postulation.

    The correct moniker now is Waterside Hypotheses of Human Evolution (hypotheses, in plural), which is much more to the point. It was Desmond Morris, not Alister Hardy, that coined the term "aquatic ape" in 1967 in his bestseller "The Naked Ape," where Morris briefly summarized Hardy's idea of what Hardy himself just labeled "was man more aquatic in the past" for a four page article from 1960. Apparently Morris' term "aquatic ape" makes all the ignants see dolphin apes, that's why they laugh. When Elaine Morgan took up the concept of human aquaticism in her book The Descent of Woman from 1972, she just used Morris' term.

    Tiny, random human choices, that inadvertently spawn absolute hysteria, holding back a perfectly rational debate about a vital scientific topic for fuckin' decades.


    This is the contemporary definition from 2011, which still doesn't differ significantly from Hardy's four lines from 1960 quoted above:

    Waterside hypotheses of human evolution assert that selection from wading, swimming and diving and procurement of food from aquatic habitats have significantly affected the evolution of the lineage leading to Homo sapiens as distinct from that leading to Pan.

    - Elaine Morgan and Algis Kuliukas, 2011
     
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  5. CEngelbrecht Registered Senior Member

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    Uhuh. Do that for at least two million years, possibly double or triple that, why wouldn't this ape evolve the exact traits of an otherwise aquatic nature we're yelling about in here?

    https://www.nature.com/news/science-gets-a-grip-on-wrinkly-fingers-1.12175
     
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  7. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Ooh, you sure don't know a lot.
     
  8. CEngelbrecht Registered Senior Member

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    Because what? The theory of evolution is wrong? That's monocausal, init?
     
  9. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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  10. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Show me why you think that.
     
  11. CEngelbrecht Registered Senior Member

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    *Sound of me groaning*

    Not exactly to the point of needing to adapt traits analoguous to aquatic mammals and not to be seen in any other simian, living also in them wet rainforests.

    The savannah scenario cannot credibly have been the habitat that solicited those changes to the hominin genotype. That old assumption has been dead for decades now. Which means that either we evolved along a completely different route from our nearest ape relatives in the exact same habitat as them, the jungle, leaving no descernable selective reason to ever evolve these very unique ape traits; or, we were subjected to much more water activity than them for cento millenia. That's the only perspective that solves the equation with no unnessecary assumptions. The world is no longer flat.
     
  12. CEngelbrecht Registered Senior Member

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    Oh, go fuck yourself.
     
  13. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Ah. So you are one of those people who think that just because climate change is a "popularity consensus" among scientists, that it is not reasoned from evidence in good faith? Sorry, not a fan of such semantic tricks.
    Because CEngelbrecht is treating it like a political issue - saying "his way or the highway", ridiculing anyone who dares object, blaming "the system" etc.

    I don't know what side you are on; you haven't posted much on this topic.
    And there is no hard evidence that requires the evolution of all those traits in an aquatic environment. None.

    There is good evidence, however, that most of those traits evolved on land, in response to changes brought about by the increase in intelligence in humans.
     
  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    There are even more people who use cocaine. That is not an argument that cocaine shaped our evolution.
     
  15. CEngelbrecht Registered Senior Member

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    Okay, how is that not a fucking strawman?????????????????????

    LOOK INTO A FUCKING MIRROR, SAPIENS!!!

    Bullshit! Fucking bullshit! You're repeating and re-repeating a nonsensical fucking lie, that has been proven to be for decades. It's a god damned stupid mantra.
     
  16. CEngelbrecht Registered Senior Member

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    Okay, enough. Go fuck yourself. You couldn't give a rats ass about true science. I'll leave you to stare yourself blind at your cave shadows.
     
  17. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    So you can't. Well spotted.
     
  18. Bells Staff Member

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    Huh? That is not in the ocean. That is a thermal pool. Why are you lying and deliberately being misleading?

    And with that you are done.
     
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