Mental health stigma

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Asguard, Aug 22, 2011.

  1. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

    actually your wrong there, as part of my studies i have training both in general psycology and sociology AND in mental health nursing.

    However you stated that you belived mental illness was:

    You went on to state

    (highlighting mine)

    and dismissed the views of those very psycologists, occupational theorpists, mental health nurses, paramedics, police, social workers, General practicioners and psychiatrists who work with mental illness on a daily basis.
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  3. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    Yes, I guess trying to take it off the personal was a futile thing...
    But what I was trying to do was stop the nastiness, as I don't enjoy people that I like, or even people that I dislike, snarling at each other.


    It occurs to me to try to talk a little bit about the idea of the active mental health consumer?
    I got into it a bit before in the last post...and over on the psych forum, we were all rather into that.

    No...I'd say the general membership there did not look to Pdocs(the slang term) as our rescuers necessarily...but as people we worked with to find the best solution for us.

    And there were a lot of threads about "Should I fire my Pdoc?"Many times...answer was yes...there's a lot of psychiatrists out there who are incompetent or worse.

    I started a thread called "Idiot says what?" for therapist horror particular one is not so much a horror story but pretty ironic in retrospect...going to a psych ward for six weeks in 1990 in Texas...and being magically transformed into something approximating a drag performer-full makeup, giant hair...they somehow thought this equated to mental health...

    And... Aquanet hairspray! made my nose run.

    If any of them knew I was a genderqueer/androgyne person now and really fricken' happy to identify as such...

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    So...when I go to the doctor I want the doctor to let me say "No, I'm not getting where I want to be, I'm tired all the time, I can't meet my goals...." and then try to find the chemistry and therapy that will get me there.

    Not have me say..."Well I'm not thinking about killing myself this month, but I barely get out of the house except to work, and if I died tomorrow I wouldn't care..." and have them decide that's ok.
    Which I kinda had happen: "OH! You have a job? Good!"
    Ignoring that I have the potential to do MUCH better than my current job...I just need to be more stable.
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  5. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    1. You are still a lay.

    2. You are still talking about psychology here in reference to yourself.

    Yeah, because the views of those professionals are really really helping you to get better.

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  7. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    At the end of the day, one is still left to oneself.
    Scientific studies and theories come and go, but one remains.

    And if one believes "There is something wrong with me" one will never "get better".

    For a discussion of this, see for example Tara Brach's "Radical Acceptance" (, the preview at Amazon has the beginning, esp. "Something is wrong with me" and then "Strategies to manage the pain of inadequacy" (starting with "We embark on one self-improvement project after another" - that should make one think ...).
  8. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

    and what if they don't want to work on their condition? What if they want to blame others for not understanding their condition? Aren't they enforcing the very stigma they say they don't like?

    I have great admiration for a certain member here (I miss him) who manages to make it through every day even though its very hard. And manages to do it with a sense of humour instead of whining about how unfair it all is.
  9. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    To some degree, if they are being lazy or non-treatment compliant...I can understand less sympathy.
    There are slacker nutters.
    Like everybody else.
    Some people of perfectly sound mind and body just like to sit on the couch and each potato chips, too.
    Personally I take pride in doing my jerb when I am doing terrible...I know crazies get better if they work, but they have to devote extra energy to remaining normal-appearing.
    It can be so hard to fake sane some days....

    But whether you are or are not doing your optimal managing thing?
    It gets frustrating to be told your pain isn't real, or your panic attacks are your fault, or your mania is a failure to control yourself...or that those antipsychotics are just dope you need to get off, even.
    People question the existence of mental illness. Not the severity or whatever...some people actually question its' existence.

    I dunno, if I want to understand someone, unless they start obviously lying to me, I tend to consider them the fullest witness of how their own life is.

    I have been told how my life is in this thread by people who don't even have a history.
    There's failure to understand, then there's ignoring explanations for one's own preconceptions.
    Preconceptions usually based on heuristics: i.e., what you yourself have had happen or maybe a small group of close people.

    For instance...this is all supposition...but say the Marquis moves around in a lot of well-off social circles...he may not have met too many severely depressed people, and so formed his opinion from the mild cases around him.

    The recurrently severely depressed have a hard time keeping jobs, and would tend to be really poor. But he would not see too many, since he associates with people of similar socioeconomic status.
  10. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    Some "mental illnesses" seem paradoxical: the person wants help, seeks help - but rejects it when they get it.
    This is due to the nature of their particular "mental illness," not because they would be "slackers."

    Consider this example:

    A wife wants to give up smoking.
    The husband encourages her to stop smoking.
    She refuses to stop smoking, because she believes she would do it because he told her so and not because it was her own desire to do so; thus by giving up smoking after he told her to, she would feel she lost her independence.

    This pattern also occurs sometimes with people who have a mental illness: the person wants to change, but once others tell her to change, she feels reluctant about the change as she believes it would be an act of giving up her own volition.

    It is natural that people want to be in charge of themselves.
    But they may not be able to deal with instructions from others. This can have to do with their particular locus of control (and related concepts).

    (To trick this, Reverse Psychology is sometimes used.)
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2011
  11. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    Just to be clear:

    Did I ever say
    "Chimpkin, you are not in pain. Your pain is not real." -? No, I did not.

    Did I ever say
    "Chimpkin, you do nothave suicidal thoughts." -? No, I did not.

    Did I ever say
    "Chimpkin, you are a loser." -? No, I did not.

    Did I ever say
    "Chimpkin, your panic attacks are your fault." -? No, I did not.

    Did I ever say
    "Chimpkin, if you feel like shit, you are shit." -? No, I did not.

    Did I ever say
    "Chimpkin, completely recover this instant!" -? No, I did not.

    But these are things you tend to hear.

    You keep saying you are being invalidated (also by me), but you refuse to acknowledge how much you invalidate others. You have several of us on ignore, and you only click to open some posts.
    You are saying we are not making an effort - but you don't even read our posts or the links we provide.
    This is serious invalidation on your part.

    I am not surprised you feel invalidated in return.

    Did you tell the therapist how you heard what he/she said?
    Did you ask the therapist to explain what he/she meant by "OH! You have a job? Good!"?
  12. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    Something Marquis noted that struck me...our depression skyrocketed in the 50's. When the nuclear family occurred. Before then in the United States everybody was just generally a lot poorer and there was a lot more people engaged in agriculture.
    So we were far more likely to be living in multigenerational households...and less likely to be lonely and stressed.
    So why might more social atomization cause an organically-based brain disorder like depression to increase?

    I present the kindling theory:


    You increase stress, so those who are physiologically disposed to depression are more likely to have an initiatory episode...and then it's easier for them to have another, and another...and so on.
  13. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    Is it helping you to think about your depression this way?

    If yes, in what way does it help you?
    Can you describe the thoughts, feelings and anything else that might be desirable for you when you think about depression in ways like above?
  14. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    Why don't you invite a family of gypsies to come and live with you?

    Meanwhile, at Chimpkin's place...................

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    Hard faced Gypsy :
    Cheempkeen, you are magnificent. Please, take my daughter as wife.
    Gypsy Girl: Yes, Chimpykin, yes, yes yes.
    Chimpkin's cats: Meow?

    Added later
    Chimpkin's wife:
    The cats I can put up with, but entire Gypsy families..................
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2011
  15. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    As long as she also marries my wife...
  16. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

    This thread is a good example of how the mentally ill contribute to the stigma of mental illness:

    1. They invalidate others, ignore them flat out.
    2. Insist in their own preconceived notions, refusing to even for the sake of the discussion entertain alternative views.
    3. Bring up topics for discussion but then refuse to talk about them.
    4. Default to presuming malicious intent or indifference in others.
    5. Interpret others uncharitably.
    6. Demand kindness from others, but refuse to give it themselves.

    Given this, the stigma of mental illness is, in fact, justified.
  17. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

    well said :bravo: And it is what I've seen from some here
  18. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    I have apologized for my earlier performance with The Marquis...look on his wall. I figured an act of contrition should be visible for a long time.

    Crow tastes nasty.

    Edited to add, besides that...I'm an evil librul too, which makes it extra-special.
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2011
  19. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

    I think someone else should be eating crow
  20. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

    I think this may be part of why there is a stigma

  21. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    You really think that's an example of mental illness?

    If it is, and not saying it is(or is not), I would like to point out several things:
    He did not act on his impulse to attack that person.
    He is somewhat questioning his grip on reality, which a lot of thought-disordered people have trouble put it mildly.
    He has mentioned he's on antidepressants, so he has a regular psychiatrist on tap to bring it up with, or even call.
    So if it happens again, he can get an emergency appointment.

    You yourself have admitted to having visceral reactions to people that made you fear for your children in that thread.
    Should you go see a psychiatrist for this?

    You and I can't really diagnose by internet...if I'm talking to someone I can say, "Wow, you seem to be really________, you need to see a psychiatrist." But even if I had that master's I want...I still wouldn't be able to diagnose over internet.

    Periodically we get people like Kathaksung, who had put this board on his paranoid spam list...pretty obvious they ain't taking the blue pills...

    So a restrained impulse to violence, followed by sanity-questioning frightens you. Can you elaborate on that frightened and possibly resentful feeling?
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2011
  22. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member


    Is it just a coincidence that both of you mention how resentful I am??:shrug:
  23. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

    Because you seem a bit frightened and resentful to me? Am I misreading?

    Anyway, I stumbled over this:

    I will now be taking my butt-bugs daily

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