Mental health stigma

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I go to a sexual abuse survivor's site...
And I get to convince a lot of people that their less severe abuse is as valid, damaging and needs healing as the Dissociative Identity persons who were used in child porn...
And the mods would be on a comparison of suffering like this there like a ton of bricks.

OK:Now I'm guilty of doing it too in this thread...

I need to keep personal stuff between me and other members out of the public eye...Work it out in PM.
I will always do so in future.
I apologize, Signal. Won't happen again.

But nonetheless...even though I am guilty as sin here...

Can we please stop discussing ourselves and each other from here on out?

If the answer on that is no-
Somebody probably ought to just lock the fricken' thread, because we're not going to get anything productive done.
On a topic worth digging into.
*sigh*

I am working my way through the "enough rope" show...I would find it very interesting...and rather creepy... to participate in one of those auditory hallucination workshops.

 

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No disrespect intended by disregarding your request immediately prior this post, but, just wanted to add--briefly:

Much of that is eerily familiar--not in the unheimlichkeit sense, but more in the, uh, unfremdlichkeit kinda way (that's sort of a Middle High German, uh, confabulation (which might seem like the wrong word, but is in fact the word I intend), so don't bother trying to look it up)--that is:

I can't even recall the earliest suicidal ideation (kinda blocked out a significant chunk of my childhood), but I'm fairly certain it at least surfaced some time after my initial rejection of "God," which came about at age 4 whilst "lying" in bed doing that activity which shortly thereafter cracked my skull open and left a teeny-weeny little scar on my left temporal lobe with other-than-teeny implications.

Anyhow, dx'ed bipolar at 16 and put on lithium (following suicide attempt and compulsory (but brief) institutionalization). Lithium's not so great for epileptics, but I didn't get that dx for another 8/9 years. Instead, I subsequently got a schizophrenia dx and put on old-school neuroleptics. Maybe not so much the fault of shitty docs as it was the fault of a shitty medical "system," which affords poor people 5 minute appointments tops (if at all)--hardly time enough to make an accurate dx. Didn't get the proper epilepsy dx
til age 25, whilst I was ***somehow*** a graduate student in Toronto, Canada. (I'll try to avoid blurting out any "Death to America" cries here.)

But by that point I had seized so much, and so often, and for rather lengthy stretches (including periods in which I would allofasudden-like find myself halway across the continent (sans any vehicle) with absolutely no clue as to how the hell I had gotten "there"), such that the cumulative effects were not unlike receiving multiple courses of 1970's-style ECT "treatment" (see Waxman-Geschwind Syndrome). IOW I sarcely recognize that person that I was when I was, say, 20, or 25, or 30, anymore. And the fact that in the time since I had received the accurate diagnosis, none of the meds I've tried have done jack-shit, I continue to "transform." Now I just do without meds (and docs) altogether, and am frankly faring much better.

Of course, all that stuff's for the most part "invisible" (well, except during "episodes"); that is, no one sees the little scar on my brain; or that kid who was raised in poverty by an ignorant, albeit clever and conniving, psychopathic father (who finally left during my adolescence) and a doting, albeit clueless and oblivious, mother; or the young adult who, between bouts of homelessness, managed to get beaten (literally) repeatedly by reps of the "State" and experimented upon by clueless and uncaring "doctors"--and also managed, somehow, to get a proper edumacation, see a good part of the world, and perform strange music in strange places scattered about that world. What they see is a slender, reasonably attractive, well-educated white guy who could look a bit more "presentable" were he to gain a bit of weight and shed that "revolutionary" look--but who is prone to "acting out" inexplicably, ranting like a madman on occassion, and falling down at times. IOW they see a potential threat to "national security" of the most nefarious variety: the wolf in sheep's clothing.

I like to own up to my actions, my behaviors, my temperament, and "take responsibility" for all that shit. But at the same time, sometimes I've gotta wonder how the hell I'm "responsible" for all of that.


P.S. Also, gotta add: I wholly concur with Bells and Chimpkin with regards to the utter absurdity of comparing illnesses.

 

Sure.

If you think the above is what the person intended, then why not talk it over with them?

Or is it that you cherish your own interpretations of other people's intentions above what these other people actually mean?

No, I don't, and you have just given an example of why some people who feel shitty remain feeling shitty.

By not communicating with others, people make themselves victims of their own - often misguided - interpretations of other people's intentions.
And thus make everything worse, for themselves, and for others.

People aren't simply evil. But if one presumes they are and treats them as if they were, they won't tolerate it forever.

 

Sometimes they are though...just evil.
Sometimes the cumulative effect of being locked in their emotional injuries is...evil.

Mostly people are indifferent, though, and that is the truth.

 

There are three ways to approach a challenging interpersonal situation:

1. "It is my fault."
2. "It is the oter person's fault."
3. "There is a reason."

The first two lock us into a downward spiral of contempt - contempt for oneself and for others.

The third response lets us communicate and achieve goals.


The point of communication isn't to establish who or what the other person "really is", or who or what we "really are," but to get a task completed, to get our needs met.

 

I think it is key that you acknowledge that you read it this way.


I think that the idea that "all mental problems are physiologically caused" is disempowering.
It's like cutting one's arms and legs off.


I am sure there is evidence of this and that - but I also think it is ultimately irrelevant.


I am not blaming you. I'm trying to give you an example of thinking differently about your problems.


If gritting your teeth worked - you'd be perfect by now, wouldn't you?
But since gritting your teeth hasn't produced results after so many years - then how about trying something else?

It is what you might hear. But it is not necessarily what you are told.

I apologize if I am not able yet to make myself more clear and more concise.

Why are you saying you're sorry for being angry and hurt?

I'd really like to know that.

I think your fault is in thinking that life should be plain sailing.

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Most people seem to believe that life should be plain sailing. It's also a silly belief, and it causes a lot of harm.

I didn't get the impression that DBT teaches a kind of grit-your-teeth-and-bear-it.

 

That's not very kind, Bells.

 

Can you see how holding such beliefs makes life really really hard?
Can you see how holding such beliefs makes you feel depressed?

 

I cant even find a name, university, medical institution or goverment atached to that site (Except for ads of course). where do they get there evidence? wheres there studies? wheres the links?

Looks like cooko land to me.

Did you actually look at the links i posted signal?

 

My view is that people who end up diagnosed (by themselves or doctors) as "mentall ill," are people who have a heightened sensitivity.
This sensitivity can be an asset, or a liability, depending on numerous factors - from how other people treat such a person, to the person's own actions.

It seems they try really hard to "be like everyone else" - and it is not helping them. In fact, nobody who tries to "be like everyone else" seems to fare particularly well.

My view is that the "bored housewife" and the "average Joe" are using the same strategies of denial, depressing, self-hatred and such as those who are "mentally ill". These strategies are common, they are even popularily considered "normal". Of course, Freud would, for example, say they are not, but that they are neurotic.

Except that people who end up diagnosed (by themselves or doctors) as "mentall ill" are able to practice those strategies to a greater extent. They, sort of, simply reach the goal of those strategies earlier, given their heightened sensitivity.

The goal of those strategies being something like "If I feel bad about myself, then I am a good person." A "basic lesson" most of us have learned early on.


There is nothing wrong with you!!

Except maybe thinking that there is something wrong with you.

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you got your degree where? (and in what) oh and frud was debunked YEARS ago, he is only of intrest from a historical perspective

 

Think this thought -
* It is awful and terrible when things are not the way one would very much like them to be.

- Do you believe this?

Some of them.

 

specifically did you actually watch the interviews on the website angels and demons?

You judge mental illness to be a myth (you wouldnt be a scientologist would you?) with no evidence and ignoring the expeciances of those who suffer them AND those who treat them.

 

The way I see it, you are far too dependent on external sources for validation.
It would appear this dependence contributes to your depression.


How does Asguard feel?
What does Asguard think?

Must Asguard wait for official science to prove something before Asguard may believe it?
How does Asguard resolve the contradictions between scientific findings?



And no, Freud was not "debunked."
You are a lay and you are trying to make professional assessments of developments in psychology.
No serious psychologist would say that Freud (or someone else) was "debunked."

Namely, there is little consensus in psychology; there are many views of the same phenomenon.
Some psychologists maintain that all mental illness is physiologically caused.
Some psychologists maintain that the view that "all mental illness is physiologically caused" is ultimately not helpful for treatment.


But you are focusing on those views in psychology that suit your depression - namely the disempowering views.

Did you consider that it is your depression that is making you focus on those theories in psychology that would keep your depression in place instead of getting out of it?

 

Not at all.

It is telling that you think I do.

It is your mental illness that is leading you to think I judge mental illness to be a myth.

 

I don't have a degree in psychology or related fields.

This is a discussion forum and the topic of mental illness comes up in general as well, so it is prudent to be able to talk about things. One doesn't have to have a degree for that.
(Note that I often use qualifiers such as "In my view" and "I think".)


Chimpkin said earlier:

I don't think this can work.

We are all lays here.
We cannot talk serious official psychology.
Apparently, this is not what people want anyway.
There doesn't seem to be much use in talking official psychology either.


If you, and some others, would really be so very interested in what official psychology has to say about mental illness, you would spend your time reading their books, websites, participate in their seminars, conferences etc.

But apparently, official psychology is not all that interesting for you and some others.

So you come here and you want to talk about stuff. Okay.
You want to play out your mental illness with real people. Okay.
Because this social aspect of your mental illness is probably crucial to it and crucial to overcoming your mental illness. Okay.

 

Debunked isn't the word they use, but my professors pointed him out as an artefact, not as anything more than historical relevance...he's been long-since superseded.

And Freud used cocaine. Which certainly perked his patients up, yes.

According to the wikipedia entry:

 

I'm wondering. Are you posting that to refute or support?

This article is saying that black depression and suicide cases are on the rise.

Perhaps this is why:

And here we are again. Cultural influence.
Getting the drift? Slowly sinking in?

This is not a disease. It is a state of mind.

Moreover, it is a state of mind which is becoming more acceptable... and in the case of some (no names, and besides I think he's ignoring me now), almost fashionable.
All you need do is look at this thread, where there seems to be a few jostling for position over who can elicit the most sympathy.

Referring to it as a "disease" gives the impression it is something you have which somebody needs to cure you of.
As I said, some people are born with a natural balance of chemicals which may make them more susceptible to depression. That's a given. Some are more muscular, some are more intelligent. We're all different.
The problem with giving it attention and undue acceptance is that you impart a license to suffer from it. Same goes for ADHD and similar mental imbalances; suddenly everyone who happens to be badly behaved has a diease which gives them the excuse that it isn't their fault... and a reason not to confront themselves. The amount of times I've seen someone on here claiming to have "borderline Asberger's" is enough to give me the screaming heebie jeebies.

Society has a tendency, rather than encouraging individuals to take responsibility for themselves, to excuse and lay blame elsewhere. That, incidentally, is a phenomenon not confined within this thread alone.
"I'm a self-indulgent little worm. But I have a note from my doctor. So I'm not a self-indulgent little worm."

And I'm told I have to accept that. Understand it. Sympathise. I'm told I have a stigma.
Honestly? It's like watching a fat guy sitting around whining about glandular problems while munching on a box of donuts.

Precisely. The statistics bear it out.

The obvious conclusion being that it all boils down to perspective. Theirs (the migrants), and yours. If yours is skewed, as it would would certainly appear to be, then it's up to you to do something about it.

For a start, you can stop worrying about what others expectations of you are, and start figuring out who you are. From the sounds of what I've read from you, it's one of your main problems - expecting sympathy and support, and not only that, but from all the wrong people.
If you're that fat guy, you have two choices. You can get up and walk, or you can reach for another donut. You're probably always going to be fat, if you're that way inclined. But there is nothing stopping you from minimising the impact as much as humanly possible - and everything wrong with using a glandular problem as a reason to sit around wallowing in it.

Or you can put me on ignore. I think some already have.
That is the type who are going to wallow in it for the rest of their lives. It has little to do with me, and everything to do with them.