Men, Masculinity, and Humanity

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Tiassa, Jul 6, 2014.

  1. Le Repteux Registered Senior Member

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    105
    You reason like me Elte, so you might be a man. But if we claim that men are better at reasoning, we will have to find out what reasoning is really about, because it cannot be a better way than feelings, otherwise men would be more intelligent than women, and we kind of know now that this is not the case.
     
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  3. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    nature
    nurture
    always a question
    Personally almost all of the women I've had were, in some important ways, smarter than me. I see pattern in external things much more clearly than I see it in myself. I'm an excellent problem solver, but most of them had better life designs, (excepting the most brilliant, who was also a tad insane). Maybe it's just that I'm more attracted to that kind of woman. My first lover knew what she was going to do when she was still in highschool, and she planned her future then worked her plan.

    If that implies better reasoning ability, then the "classical notion" needs some work.
     
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  5. Le Repteux Registered Senior Member

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    If planning is about not taking chances, then reasoning could be about taking some. If its true that men take more risks than women, then their reasoning could be one of the ways to take those risks, because to me, discussing is more risky than letting believe that we agree. If, while discussing, we refer mainly to the way our opponent is feeling, we might stop arguing faster than if we wanted to win an argument, thus if we referred to the way he is reasoning.

    This way, reasoning would be about the pleasure to win an argument, thus about changing others, which is not particularly intelligent, whereas feeling would be about the pleasure of not arguing, thus about how not to change others, which is not particularly intelligent either, even if it seems more adequate these days. Both sexes carry these two instinctive behaviors otherwise they could not talk about them, but one of them is about forcing people to do what we want, and it belongs more to men than to women. Rape and violence against women might come from them, but if it is instinctive, how could we regulate them socially?
     
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  7. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Fascinating topic and discussion!
    Just to throw in a thought or two...

    Perhaps all males/females could individually sign up to the Universal declaration of human rights - 1948?
    especially Article 3 of 30:

    Article 1.
    • All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

    Article 2.
    • Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

    Article 3.
    • Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
    src: http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/

    The war to end all wars (including domestic) or was that just an ideal than so many died for?
    (subscribed)
     
  8. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

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    2,562
    Would that be like buying a purity ring?
    I hear they're all the rage, amongst a certain clique.
     
  9. elte Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks. I think women are probably as good at reasoning as us men. They could have more distractions in their lives that hinder their focus though.

    Anymore, I avoid emphasizing masculinity and femininity much. I see them as getting in the way of doing important things in the world.
     
  10. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

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    2,562
    Then that is a problem.
    The philosophical differences between male and female are ingrained.

    The strategy of ignoring one or the other by means of denying they exist is institutional blindness.
     
  11. elte Valued Senior Member

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    Philosophical ingrainment is a problem. I second that.

    However, that second thought doesn't accurately reflect my view.

    Yeah, if I had talent at writing I probably could explain things better. Much of the time I have to settle on outlining my views, often leading to the reader to not understanding me very well.

    That takes us back to the intelligence idea. I like to think that by lacking writing ability, my brain has strengths in other areas. In a somewhat similar way, women and men having divergence in brain wiring could have strengths in different areas.

    But eventually, humanity can gain lots more overall by doing away with sexual differences and let the mind be more platonic. If we need reproduction, we could use cloning. However, lifespans should expand to lengths that reduces or eliminates the need to reproduce. That's my view even though I'd say it's not the way people tend to look at things these days.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2014
  12. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    17,541
    No, but as a starting premise I think it is worth mentioning... when discussing masculinity in a "humanity" context...
    After all, what do the words "equal in dignity and rights", "security of person", "liberty" etc actually mean to people generally.

    Probably not much until those principles are threatened.
     
  13. Le Repteux Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    105
    Elte,

    A few years ago, I stopped having sex with women, because I wanted them to listen to what I had to say about it. Like you, I think that having sex may not always be a necessity to reproduce the specie. All we would have to do is respect the diversity of nature and it should be OK. So we should continue to reproduce men and women, and with all their differences, which means that we still would have a problem with sex, and with men raping or harming women because they are stronger and take more risks. Would it be better to eradicate the sexual instinct? Will humanity become a GMO product someday?
     
  14. elte Valued Senior Member

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    1,253
    Le Repteux,

    I'm still a virgin and don't feel I've missed anything worthwhile. I've missed being under the control of hormones to the extent that other people might have been. But I don't mean to say others can't still enjoy sexual intercourse if they wish to.

    Thanks for those thoughts. I'd like the sexual drive done away with. Even though some people might feel GMO humans sounds too much like the eugenics of the 1920s, we really could benefit from genes that neither program the body and mind to deteriorate with age nor make it susceptible to getting ill from degenerative diseases like type 2 diabetes and the most notorious one, cancer, among many others.
     
  15. Le Repteux Registered Senior Member

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    105
    As I said, if we respect the principle of diversity, I think that playing with genes would cause no problem to the specie. But how could we eliminate sexual instinct without eliminating sexual differentiation, which is very important for diversity? Maybe we could eliminate it only on half of the population, but it would mean that we would have to chose if we keep a penis or not to urinate. What about a thin retractile urethrae? (I wonder what women think of that masculine proposition?)
     
  16. elte Valued Senior Member

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    The things that matter most to me are those on the inside of the person.
     
  17. river

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    Some guys just don't enjoy giving pleasure to a women

    To bad really
     
  18. river

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    9,793
     
  19. river

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    9,793
    guys let your fingers do the walking

    I've used my fingers on a women's breast for an hour or more alone . yeah just her breasts alone

    her body is a wonderland

    she will enjoy it

    its not just about intercourse guys
     
  20. Le Repteux Registered Senior Member

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    I wonder if the guy who rapes a woman is really trying to give her pleasure! Anybody has some experience about it?
     
  21. Le Repteux Registered Senior Member

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    What matters most to me is my ideas, and I think that what matters most to women is their feelings. When I was younger, what mattered more was sports, which are about action, and I think that all our ideas are about action, so its not surprising to me that I now care about my ideas. If most men are like me, they don't care much about their feelings, except maybe for gays, who seem to be able to care about both ideas and feelings at a time, with maybe a more pronounced taste for feelings. Is the fact that there is little women that propose new ideas on scientific forums a proof that they care less about their ideas or is it only cultural?
     
  22. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    5,160
    The rise in rape in colleges and the rise of domestic violence is connected to the feminization of men via liberalism. Liberal education controls the schools. The men are learning to use the feminine and liberal scams and then applying this template in creative ways that benefit liberal men.

    The main template, used so far, is the liberal quota system. Men like sex more than women. This allows some, but not all women, to use sex to leverage men. Using the lessons of liberalism, some men feel that men have been systematically deprived of sex, just like women feel men have deprive them of benefits, controlled by men like jobs and education. That being said, the liberal playbook says you need to have a quota system, where the women of today, have to pay for the women of the past, who deprived men in the past. The solution is not about justice based on cause and effect between specific people, but rather it needs to be set up in an unjust way that allows innocent women to be condemned and exploited, to meet a nebulous quota. It is not about justice for a victim based on their exact criminal, but liberal justice means anyone of the same stereo-type can pay, even if innocent. Rape is part of this new quota system for the past evils of sex deprivation. The quota system is blind and creates victims even for those who never were victimized.

    If a guy is a nerd or is somehow creepy, it is OK for women to shun and segregate him from sex. This is not much different, than depriving a person of a good opportunity, base on their skin color and ethnicity. The quota system says they should be paid for the past by women of the present, even if the present women was innocent and did nothing to him or anyone like him. Quota systems are blindly unjust that way; creepy rape artists. The rapists may be waiting for liberals laws to get on the books.

    Women like to nag, with some only due to PMS. This is system wide abuse of men, based on the liberal playbook standards. This is not natural due to sexual dynamics, since men and women are the same in liberal education. It has to be a conspiracy based on sex. Based on retroactive guilt and irrational justice, as taught by liberal education, entrepreneurs interpret this to mean current men can even with this victimization, justified because of to female based historical and modern precedent. The liberal rule is not cause and effect to specific people, but it is based on quotas that can create new victims. These victims cannot complain since they are taking one for the bad team.

    The glass ceiling that women imagine is not due to ability, but rather to back room males making laws and rules against women. If we use a sex glass ceiling, few married males get sex at the level of the CEO stud due to a sex glass ceiling, that all women seem to conspire and share. They all get together and set up these rules against men. The liberal rules says you need to force there mean women to allow more men to have CEO roles. It is not about earning, but force via law based on retroactive quilt.

    Men are using the liberal standards in creative ways, with good liberals exempt from the dual standards that apply to conservatives. The liberal man can do things and not be blamed if the are with the struggle based on no sexual differences and fairness via quotas for all.
     
  23. elte Valued Senior Member

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    1,253
    I think it is mostly cultural. They have been beaten down so long that many of them haven't gotten used to asserting themselves yet, and many others are still waiting to be allowed to assert themselves.
     

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