Meditation is the most important skill

The phrase 'western meditation' means nothing because there is a vast diversity of definitions in the west.

Some people believe that thinking real hard is meditation, some believe that only thinking about certain things is meditation, some believe that trying hard not to think at all is meditation.

Some define it as a practise, others define it as a condition...still others define it as a practise that leads to a condition.

Some believe that meditation is only possible sitting in the lotus posture, others believe its possible lying down, or walking, or working, or masturbating....and on and on.

 

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Dude,
why are you trying so hard to make it more complicated than it is. Most people in the west who meditate agree on what it is. I don't think western mediatators think that sitting dozing in a slump passes, if anything they have to explain to people that it isn't that. And meditation does produce a relaxed state that has been scientifically proven, if you disagree with that then you can argue with the Dalai Lama and the numerous studies that support that conclusion. I do agree that in the East meditation's traditional goal isn't simply relaxation.

 

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I meditate with the beer or with a good movie. Depends what you like - sex.

 

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No, you don't.

 

Important for what?!?!?!?!?!

 

Importance is subjective, as is the purpose of life. Which ultimately, more or less, this will run down to.

I'm not sure what mine is, but I do prioritize getting to know myself. Nothing is really more fascinating than realizing the fragility of a human. My ancestors evolved into the birth of me, at that moment I started to experience, and the "I" was formed. All these layers of conditioning started building an ego until recently the illusion has halted and started to peel off, slowly and surely.

If you look at us people like animals, it is much easier to see realistically. I hear all these reggae songs preach unity of mankind, but fail to see the truth. That we, like every other animal are greedy and selfish to a degree. And you can argue that we are getting better at be-headings and mass-slaughters but glance east for a second at Africa and beyond and these nightmares are concurrent with the present times.

I theorize with others that humans evolved intelligence largely to out-maneuver and trick others, so to stay ahead of the pack. Evidence from facial expressions that we have no control over, to pesky apes convinces me for the time being.

So much of our ego is because of our evolution. The jokes we tell, the things we cringe at, the things I aspire for. A lot of my traits are in completely uncontrollable. Look at identical twins, separated, observed 20 years later to have the same music taste and have the same job.

And there is environment, playing sound and showing me visuals. Creating vast tables of categories hundreds of layers deep. Every experience registered somewhere, cross-linked, and ready for retrieval.

The sum of experiences is what I am, along with genes crafted in a way to best survive, not best "harmonize with the universe" -(some reggae lyric).


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So how can any of us be true to ourselves, be "real." There are all these layers and layers of variables set upon us, basically creating us.

Meditation is the only way to peel these layers back. You people without it are like robots, or insects. Your decisions, the core of what you think you are is largely under influence by your genetic and environmental make-up or ego.

How can you say you're free when you're really not.

That's what I'm trying to say

 

So your argument is that meditation is important to developing your ego(self)? I wouldn't say the most important, because I see solitude as much more essential(and Nietzsche would agree, I think?). As far as being free, I also think Nietzsche would say that solitude is key in that. True solitude, if you have just one friend, you can't know what it is to be solitary, everyone has some effect on you, and by considering the reactions of others, you limit your self, and therefore your freedom(er something like that).

 

Meditation develops the self literally.

Brain wave habits change:

http://www.news.wisc.edu/10420.html

 

developing, or tearing apart - anyway you look at it, as long as it is progressive towards knowing yourself,

I don't know much Nietzsche, but that sounds about right. By eliminating people, you eliminate all their influences which inherently effect your decisions.

I do however feel meditation can provide solution by digging deep enough into the mind. Awareness is really key... like this hierarchy on cognitive processing of sound:

Waves hit ear-drum
Vibrations get processed into words
Words get recognized as English
Words go through some insane morphological logic and subsequent phrases get formed etc.
Your internal-monologue iterates "5 dollars for some food, dawg?"
You do some reasoning involving amount of money you got now, which gets transfered and weighed on your belief structure, and some other events spark up. Seriously, just from hearing that phrase so much shit starts talking inside your head.

People who have taken a few minutes and meditated on their breath should know what I'm talking about - it's seriously messy in our neck-tops. Constant flooding of thoughts and ideas and re-iterations.

Without meditation and increasing your awareness of this mentalese, you will be making a decision that is almost your internal-monologue's and not your own. Meditation will bring you further down that hierarchy where your consciousness will exist on level of purer observation. At that state you won't even conceptualize words anymore, which would be doing the same thing as not introducing yourself to them in the first place by being in solitude.

 

People sit dozing in a slumped posture in the east too sometimes...which is why the Kyosaku was invented.

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A much better solution is to stretch the muscles around the hip joints in a more effective manner, so you'll be able to sit up straight effortlessly. Most Buddhist meditators cant sit directly on the floor (like this)

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because they havent stretched enough. This is why they need to sit on a cushion, to provide some elevation.

 

Meditation is not the most important skill. Getting sustenance is. Dogs and cats seem to do all right without meditation. My fish don't meditate, and I'm pretty sure Mikey the redneck down the street from me doesn't spend much time with the Dalai Lama, and yet they all seem perfectly happy with themselves and their sustenance.

 

People often think that animals are somehow perfect simply because their minds are not divided.

Strangely however, the behaviour you accept from your dog would be intolerable from a human.

 

I'm not sure what you mean. My dog shits in the yard because I have neither the time nor inclination to teach him to use the toilet. Various other things are a matter of intelligence or deeply ingrained instincts and have nothing to do with whether or not he meditates.

I don't think my dog is perfect. He's just another life form. He seems quite happy without even knowing about the concept of meditation.

 

That's great! Now all you have to do is figure out how to have the mindset of a dog...you should start by eating your own shit (just one of many activities that seems to make dogs "quite happy").

 

What's "happy" for a dog isn't necessarily "happy" for a human (or at least most humans). You don't need Tibetan monks to tell you that.

 

My point exactly.

 

You proved grover's point - the two aren't analogous by any means so you can't argue as if they were.

 

The point is that meditation isn't important. Plenty of life does just fine without it. If it was so important, we couldn't survive without it. Try to survive without sustenance, however.

 

Thanks for chiming in and pointing out something so simplistic and obvious its not even worth stating.

 

And yet you found it intriguing enough to carry on a conversation about it. Interesting...

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