Mathematical proof that God exists?

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by phreaked, Dec 23, 2001.

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  1. phreaked Registered Member

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    I have gotten this formula from someone who says he has mathematical proof that God exists, I am not too good with science or physics so I dont know what these symbols mean. If anyone here knows enough science, can you tell me what this whole equation is actually saying in laymens terms and if this equation actually proves the existence of God, or if it is just abstract. Thanks, it can be found at the bottom of
    this page. I didnt copy and paste because the symbols were turning out wrong, go check out that page and see if you can tell me what you think.
     
  2. Chagur .Seeker. Registered Senior Member

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    phreaked ...

    Symbolic logic and mathematical proof are a bit different. There is no 'proof' being offered, let alone mathematical. It's simply the expressing of the quoted statement symbolically.

    Take care and welcome to Sciforums ;)
     
  3. Dreamsa Dare to Dream! Registered Senior Member

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    Hi!

    I do not think that we can use mathematics to prove that God exists or not!;)
     
  4. James R Just this guy, you know? Administrator

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    26,781
    There is no mathematical proof that God exists.

    What the mathematics on the page you linked claims to say is exactly the same thing as in the quoted text directly above it. The English argument is flawed, and the mathematical one has all the same problems.
     
  5. Teg Unknown Citizen Registered Senior Member

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    $x(Cx&Ø$y(Gyx&Cy))®$xj1®$!xj1®$y(y=ixj1®Cixj1&Ø$y(Gyixj1&Cy)
    ØE!ixj1®$(Gyixj1&Cy)®$y(Gyixj1&Cy)
    \ØØE!ixj1®E!ixj1

    Most of it is gibberish. The only principles I can locate are G, y, and x. The use of & is a dead give away. Someone is pulling a hoax. An x-y relation and gravity are all I can discern from this garbage.
     
  6. Brainz0 Registered Senior Member

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    Tautology

    Logic. An empty or vacuous statement composed of simpler statements in a fashion that makes it logically true whether the simpler statements are factually true or false.

    "God is...."

    It doesn't matter how you fill in the blank, you have already assumed God is, or exists as something.

    There is no way to manipulate words and ideas to prove anything exists in the external universe, much less God.
     
  7. James R Just this guy, you know? Administrator

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    It looked ok to me, Teg. Are you familiar with propositional logic?
     
  8. Xelios We're setting you adrift idiot Registered Senior Member

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    I'm not :(
     
  9. orthogonal Registered Senior Member

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    Logic and mathematics are not a substitute for reasoning. It's not possible using mathematics alone to either prove or disprove god, unless that is, your god is an equation :)

    Here are some quotes you might find relevant;

    "Symbolic logic and the logic of classes are far from adequate for the characterization of human reason, which must include prototypes and image schemas, as well as conceptual frames, metaphors, and blends." Where Mathematics Comes From, Lakoff and Nunez

    "Mathematics is tautological. Every conclusion follows from its own premises, which may or may not have anything to do with the world."
    E.O. Wilson

    "Pure mathematics is the science of all conceivable worlds, a logically closed system yet infinite in all directions allowed by the starting premises. With it we might if given unlimited time and computational capacity describe every imaginable universe. But mathematics alone cannot inform us of the very special world in which we live (for this we need observation)." Ibid

    "Mathematics is not about 'proofs' and 'logic' anymore than literature is about grammar, or music is about notes. Mathematics is the study of some fascinating ideas." Proofs and Fundamentals, Ethan D. Bloch

    Michael
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2001
  10. Rick Valued Senior Member

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    3,336
    Hi,

    mathematical proof of GOD's existence...hahahahahahahaha...:cool::):D:D i"ll quote something From great CARL SAGAN'S BOOK BROCAS BRAIN how this is a joke...

    read these carefully,you may enjoy this!!!!...

    Once a French Encyclopedist diderot paid visit to russian court at the invitation of Empress,he conversed very freely and gave young members of court circle a good deal of lively Aitheism.the Empress was amused,she told him that she has a mathematician who has mathematically proved God's existance and would demonstrate this in front of the whole court if desired so.the poor guy gladly accepted.The name of mathematician was not given.IT WAS EULER.he advanced towards diderot and in a tone of perfect conviction :Monsieur,
    (a^n+b^n)/n=x,therefore god exists...the reply!!!!hahahahahahahaha...diderot was amazed as he didnt know a bit of maths,everyone burst into peals of laughter and the french man asked Empress to give him permission to go to France immidietely...

    bye!
     
  11. Brainz0 Registered Senior Member

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    Poor Sagan

    That quote is so full of typos and grammar goofs and spelling slips that Carl would be disgusted to be abused so badly. Ugh.
     
  12. PuzlRing Registered Member

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    A physicist friend of mine gave me a mathematical proof of the existence of God. I found it compelling for a while.

    He calculated the time necessary for random interactions of atoms in the known universe to come up with a cellular organism and found it to be millions or trillions of the amount of time this universe has been in existence. Thus the odds of the existence of God was trillions to one. I have a copy of this proof in some box somewhere.

    The fact that the laws of physics of this universe are tweaked perfectly so stars with planets can exist and water expands as it freezes and molecules tend toward amino acids which tend to proteins, etc, doesn't invalidate this proof. It just changes the phenomenon being measured.

    However, this 'proof' assumes there is only this known universe and that it is open, not cyclic.

    Nevertheless, I am a deist and I don't deny your God(s).
     
  13. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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    Maths does not make the universe. Maths describes the universe for us. The universe makes maths. If you create an equation which says the Earth is actually a pencil, that does not make it so.
     
  14. Brainz0 Registered Senior Member

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    Math descriptions

    Math describes any systematic system. It may or may not have anything to do with the universe (ours). There's plenty of math describing Flatland, e.g., which is like a sheet of paper with zero thickness. Does something with zero thickness exist? If so, it exists only in the mind and mathematical descriptions of the one saying so. :D
     
  15. Congrats Bartok Fiend Registered Senior Member

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    552
    Yes, and if our world were simple enough to describe in an equation, an equation might prove the existence of God. Fact is, it's not that God cannot be encapsulated in an equation, it's that no single equation can attempt to prove or disprove every facet of the notion of 'God'. God has too many implications, too many varied, specialized uses, that one single proff or disproof would be drowned in a sea of cries form people who think God goes an entirely different way.

    :bugeye: In my opinion, God takes the mystery out of the world, He provides us an outlet for our collective hopes and fears that prevents us from elaborating any further on them. I happen to think evolution is a much more 'spiritual' view than God, because it focuses on what makes us 'us'. We have not just evolved from animals physically, we have evolved emotionally. I think that's an important fact to keep in mind.
     
  16. Ed Gray Registered Member

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    mathematical proof of God-to zion et al.

    The mathematician in question is
    indeed Leonhard Euler,a Swiss math-
    ematician who at the time is
    generally recognized as the world's
    leading mathematician.In the episode
    related by zion,Euler,tired of the
    ennui proffered by the atheist,went
    to the board and wrote:
    "e^(i*pi)+1=0;therefore God exists"
    As pointed out,the object of his
    ridicule had no clue as to the mean-
    ing of the equation(and probably no
    one else did either),since it was
    an equation developed by Euler him-
    self.The elements of the equation
    are most remarkable,since they re-
    late several of the most fundamental
    constants in mathematics.
    e=the base for natural logarithms,
    an irrational number,which begins
    2.71828......
    i=the square root of -1,the basic
    unit of complex numbers(numbers of
    the form:a+=bi,a,b real numbers.
    pi=the ratio of the circumference
    of a circle to its diameter(3.14159
    .......,an irrational number.
    1=the identity element for multipli-
    cation
    0=the identity element for addition.
     
  17. Clockwood You Forgot Poland Registered Senior Member

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    4,467
    Until you are a god yourself you can not have absolute proof that god exists or not. Get a good enough understanding of the universe and you migh see something acting at the edges of your vision but it might not be what you would call god.

    Even if what you think is god speaks directly to you it still might not be god. Could be a hallucination, a trick, aliens :p, or some sort of natural non-divine process.
     
  18. Vortexx Skull & Bones Spokesman Registered Senior Member

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    Proof that paradox NOT exist

    A paradox generally states that:

    proposition A = TRUE AND proposition A = FALSE

    shorted:

    TRUE AND FALSE

    Now using Boolean logic (an accepted mathematical instrument) I can easily state:

    TRUE AND FALSE ? = FALSE

    Therefor a true paradox cannot exist in the real world.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2002
  19. daphneeee Registered Senior Member

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    mathematic proof?! Get a life
     
  20. Vortexx Skull & Bones Spokesman Registered Senior Member

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    It followes all the basic axioma's it is so astonishingly simple that you don't need to "build" some 10 pages argument upon argument to get your proof.

    Every paradox somehow tries to bite it's own tail . Instead of trying to debunk a paradox by it's complicated flawed reasoning you just say: Look, you can't bite your own tail if you don't have one, now you get a life:p
     
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