Masculinity and men

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Buddha1, Jan 2, 2006.

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  1. Hercules Rockefeller Beatings will continue until morale improves. Moderator

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    Now, if everyone put Buddha1 on their Ignore List, those seven consecutive posts of pure drivel would be reduced to this.....

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    If everyone did it, he would go away. I live in hope.....
     
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  3. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    FAIR AND FREE SOCIETY MY FOOT!
     
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  5. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    i HAD PLANNED TO SHARE THE FOLLOWING PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AS AN EVIDENCE. i WOULD LIKE TO POST THIS BEFORE THEY CLOSE DOWN THIS THREAD TOO:

    One of the most educating experiences that opened my eyes to the real nature of men had been the crowded buses in my city.

    As a child I grew up in a semi-heterosexual environment and didn't understand sexuality at all.

    In my late adolescence we shifted to a more tradional part of the city and it was for the first time that I noticed men eyeing me or trying to 'touch' me. This touching involved brushing against the private parts in a casual but sureshot manner, but it also often included touching the crotch for extended periods of time --- but pretending at the same time that it was casual (not intended and not particularly enjoyed), where the person who touches and the one who is touched, both keep a straight face as if nothing is going on between them. I was too young to be able to put two and two together. I was even masturbated on the bus --- once even when my father and uncle stood near me. They did not notice anything unusual. I enjoyed the incident but felt extremely awkward at the sametime.

    It was when I started working on the issues of gender and sexual health that these things struck me in a big way.

    I was taught during training about some people who have a sexual attraction for men who are called homosexuals. I even worked with gay men at one time, and these guys were decidedly different. At first I couldn't accept their femininity as part of their identity. I was once invited to a gay party where I found many men dressed as women. I didn’t quite enjoy that. I remember an incident where I told a Swedish gay man that gays shouldn't bring them a bad name by behaving like girls. He called me a 'homophobe'. I was confused, because I had not commented on their sexuality, only on their feminine behaviour. It took me some time to understand that gay men viewed this world differently from other men. And that homosexuality was not only about liking other men. Gender was an integral part of this 'different' identity.

    And slowly I understood why some masculine gendered men also visited the 'gay' space to have sex with men, but never considered themselves homosexuals or being a part of the 'gays'. They were part of the 'straight' community and wanted their status to remain intact.

    It was very very gradually that I realised what the west was teaching us about male sexuality was absolutely wrong. What happened on buses was totally different from the theory that only 'gay' men have a sexual need for men. I lived in the suburbs and spent around 5 hours travelling to and fro to the main city. I was studying and working at the sametime.

    The men on these buses were 'normal' 'straight' men and I did not expect them to have anything sexual going for me. It just didn't fit. Either what I was witnessing was wrong or what the west professes was. What was especially intriguing was the enormity of this phenomenon. It would be hardly unusual if the person next to me did not make an effort to touch me. To test things, I would always stand apart in such a way that the person had to make a more 'visible' effort to touch me --- at least visible to me. And I watched and analysed as men after men struggled within themselves to just be able to touch.

    There literally were extremely rare occasions when the man standing next to me or sitting next to where I stood, did not reach out to feel me up. And naturally, it was not happening just to me. They were doing it to each other all the time. I noticed that they would almost never use their hands except in certain positions (e.g. when they pretended they're sleeping on their seats). It was like using 'hands' was outside the limits of 'manhood'/ 'straighthood'. It made things too obvious. But they used almost all other body parts --- arms, biceps, hips, shoulders, legs --- whatever was handy. Rubbing hips while standing in different directions was also fairly common. Again, any fool would know it was not casual, especially if it carried on for several minutes at a stretch.

    I started to observe closely. It became my research laboratory. I started to experiment and analyse. It was clear that what was happening was happening in a very suppressed way. They would try to make it seem casual. If I were to confront them with what they were doing --- even when they were alone they would refuse it. I do remember some incidents when I saw two men standing close to each other for unusually longer time --- I would know what was going on, perhaps others did too --- who would get off the bus together.......but I never had the courage to talk to anyone who touched me. Maybe once I did. I told the guy about my workshops and said he might want to visit. He nervously and politely refused.

    I experimented (it was also part of my ego) by standing away from men who were sitting or standing next to me, so that to be out of easy reach, (of course I wouldn't allow someone I did not like to touch me) but they'd change their positions, shift their hands pretending to hold the seat bar in front of them, but ultimately try to 'touch'. 100% of the time. Sometimes I would get an erection, and then the men would get really desperate about touching. It has been the same story for years, day in and day out, every morning and evening. For the past three years I haven't travelled a lot.

    Often when I stood away from men, I noticed that they seemed to struggle within their minds, fighting their instincts for a long time about whether and how to touch me --- because adopting awkward positions to touch the crotch would not seem all that casual. I could see them fidgeting and tense. Sometimes they would make a brave attempt to hold out their hands (e.g. pretending to hold the bar or to 'sleep') and then chicken out and hold them back, only to try again later. I could see the tension that gripped them. This could go on for several minutes. If they couldn't gather the courage to touch while they were sitting, they would decidedly do it while getting up --- that would give them an excuse, and a final one. While getting up (I'd be standing on their side) they would go pressing my crotch rather hardly. It just wasn't casual.

    They were taking a lot of trouble to do it, often taking 'social' risks, and it was clear that whatever need made them do it, it was extremely strong. I would also observe other men touching each other, pretending to be indifferent at the sametime, and slowly started to understand the kinds of pressures that men live under, and the kind of masks they wear. Of course this also added to my formal work experience on the issue.

    This is the first time I'm sharing all this formally. I never thought I will. But it seems important today.

    I often thought about it. If people didn't have a thing for men, why would they be desperate to touch each other. They seemed to struggle with themselves a lot to achieve this. What need did they have to do it? And they were not even getting sex. They would never dare to do sex ....... or would they? At least I never dared. I don't think others were really different than me. After all we all lived under the same kind of pressures and conditioning.

    Was all this happening because all these guys were deprived of sex with girls? If the kind of talks that boys did about girls is any indication, there was no dirth of girls with whom to have sex. But even if there indeed was a paucity of girls, shouldn't the men have been interested in being touched rather than touching another man's dick? Common perceptions and claims of men suggest that they do not like dicks, and that if they are ever attracted to men it is only to find a source to ejaculate, in the absence of an available woman. Like ToR claimed --- men will have sex with anything when they're horny. But why would they take so much trouble to touch someone's dick from outside the pants? It will not help them ejaculate. So did they secretly care for dicks? And why were they so horny all the time?


    It was not common in my country to have an unmarried male-female couple sit openly with each other in buses, sometimes there would be a young married couple sitting. Men in these couples seemed even more desparate to touch and would cross greater limits (and thus take greater risks) to touch.

    I would guess that it was easier for one to do this with his wife around. Women don’t have a clue as to what is going on. But they make you more secure in your manhood, so you can break some more limits while trying to have fun with other boys. However, men used to get more careful and conscious when their friends or other men were present.

    All these guys were so suppressed that they went to great lengths just to be able to touch and feel a man’s penis.

    It had to be just a passing need. Yet few of them would take it beyond that. I myself wouldn’t dare to. They would do it only because the situation gave them anonymity and an excuse to ‘touch’ without having to acknowledge their same-sex needs.

    Of course sometimes I’d get an erection, and then the men would get even more desparate. It was on the buses that I observed for the first time that the more macho and powerful a man looked, the more intensity in the act.

    I have touched people too. In fact if a good looking man stands next to where I’m sitting and if I didn’t casually ‘touch’ him, he’ll take it as an insult. No one says anything, yet you know that the man is hurt. It’s indescribable. Men have learnt to communicate through their silence, a sixth sense as it were.

    Macho men are especially pleased when so touched and they show their gratitude more intensely than others, although in silent ways --- but sometimes also in open ways, such as supporting you if a fight breaks out.

    As I travel from buses that ply in traditional areas to those that are based in ‘modern’ semi-westernised/ heterosexualised areas the difference is clear. Men there are much more uptight and aloof. But scratch them a little and they are the same.

    I can even say that learning the English language in itself makes you ‘hateful’ of your same-sex needs in a way that doesn’t exist in my culture. Because the English language carries with it its cultural baggages.

    Obviously, the west was not telling us the truth about men’s sexuality. It only told us what existed on the surface. And what existed on the surface were masks not real men.

    One day I told my female colleague (and a friend) about what was happening in buses and she couldn’t believe it. She said a number of men ‘troubled’ her while traveling (meaning they made unwanted sexual advances). So I am bound to believe that these are the same men who also touch each other sexually.

    (to be continued, if thread is not closed before that......)
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2006
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  7. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    Hang in there, Buddha. You need a blog or something. I would subscribe.

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  8. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    You spent your youth in Europe and California?
     
  9. Giambattista sssssssssssssssssssssssss sssss Valued Senior Member

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    You have relayed some interesting observations. You should continue. I promise, I won't close the thread down. Though, honestly, I have no control over that in the first place.
     
  10. Giambattista sssssssssssssssssssssssss sssss Valued Senior Member

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    Different country entirely.
     
  11. Giambattista sssssssssssssssssssssssss sssss Valued Senior Member

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    Interesting.
     
  12. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    .....It was also clear that men continuously judge each other before they make a decision to ‘touch’. They would eye you very quickly but obviously, by lifting their head. If they can’t take a proper look they would look again and again. If you look back at them, it would make them feel more at ease. But I could never dare to look back. And they only touch men that they deem desirable. And it’s clear that ‘masculine’ charm is the biggest criteria that they have. I got touched the most in the period that I felt the most macho. In fact a better sign of my desirability was that almost everyone I ‘touched’ during that time got an instant erection. There was nothing ‘homo’ about any of this.

    This corresponds with the period I reported earlier about erections during examinations, without touching.

    Also none of my ‘gay’ acquaintances here experienced such a thing which means that people don’t meddle with feminine gendered men, at least not in the same ‘equal’ way. In fact the more flamboyant ones are treated like whores. Naturally, like women they too are oblivious to what men do to each other.

    There were rare occasions when a girl would come and stand unusually close to me. Admitededly I enjoyed it while it lasted.

    I never wanted to share all this earlier because its men’s little secret. It’s this secrecy that gives them the safety and space to give limited expression to their same-sex needs. Talk about it and they’ll stop doing it --- like they never had any need to do it.

    In fact as heterosexualisation of my society intensifies, things are already changing. Now there is a ‘gay’ movement in our country which claims any male who has sex with another male is ‘gay’. There was a movie a few years ago made by a gay man which promoted the western heterosexual propaganda that same-sex desires happen only in homosexuals.

    During those days I boarded a crowded bus and was traveling on the foot board (a common practice). There were two college boys on the gate. One of them said something which no other man liked, not even his friend who just smiled nervously. He hinted that a man in the bus was ‘homo’ --- using the name of the gay movie to describe him. He said that with obvious pride and belief that no one can oppose him. But in doing so he broke an important male secrecy code, which meant that things were not going to be the same post that movie. Things will only get worse as media intensifies its heterosexualisation/ homosexualisation propaganda.

    Things have definitely changed a lot. The touching incidents have come down a lot --- both in terms of their intensity and incidence. And it is not uncommon to hear negative ‘heterosexual’ comments by an overeager man in loud and clear voice, which immediately fills the entire bus load of men --- hundreds of them with a fear and hatred of this ‘touching’ business.

    So the other day a young man shouted loud with the same ‘heterosexual’ pride which is being promoted by the media --- “On this bus route, if you seek one guy to hold your dick, you’d find hundreds”. Nobody said anything. But no one liked it either. Neither did I..

    Another thing which is making this widespread male eroticism evaporate into thin air is growing acceptance of public display of male-female intimacy. Male-female unmarried couple signifies social manhood and power and thus threaten single men who become extremely careful about their behavior.

    On a bus where a boy and girl sat cozy in each other’s arms --- unimaginable just a few months ago --- suddenly men became very distant and aloof from each other. I could sense their tension and sense that the touching had ceased.

    Perhaps men from the coming generations will not know that such male camaraderie ever existed in our society. As more and more male spaces become heterosexual spaces with intense pressures to be heterosexual.
     
  13. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    This hidden secret world of men, however intense, cannot be covered by any scientific research in this world, especially when those who hold the power would rather destroy and ignore evidences.

    There is no scientific tool, no survey capable enough to measure it. This will not form part of any formal or informal discussion of men’s gender and sexuality, especially when the discussion is carried out by ‘heterosexuals’ or ‘homosexuals’.

    Yet this is the only true reality of men. This is the only true nature of men.
     
  14. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    Post heterosexualisation incident:

    A few days ago, I had to board a train from the city centre towards the subarbs. The crowd there was full of people from smaller towns --- not the hep, semi-heterosexualised city crowd.

    I stood near the door since I had to get down earlier. A lot of people mostly men were still coming. A young girl and indeed sexy girl entered. She had big breasts and wore rather tight clothes. She went past me brushing her breasts on my chest. I kept still as if nothing happened. after her a handsome young guy (about 20 yrs) entered who apparently was her boyfriend (these things in good old days were highly unusual for our country). I was completley taken by surprise when, as he passed me he put his hands on my dick --- right there. I couldn't believe it. It was a very different experience because, these were heterosexual times, and the guy was with a girlfriend, and it was very unusual for a man to use his hands so directly. Perhaps men from smaller town are much more open than we westernised nerds. He kept his hands there for about 15 seconds and would press it everytime he was jostled. Then he moved away like nothing had happened. I saw him standing on the other door. He was standing almost on top of hir girl trying to save her from the crowd.

    I had to go to the other door too, as my station was on that side. An older youth (about 25 years) standing on the door was apparently talking to his girl friend on the mobile. I stood behind him. He looked back, sized me up, and slowly pushed his buttocks on my 'lap'. It continued for sometime......somehow I was not ready for this.......and I did not want to get an erection, so I avoided him.

    But later when I analysed the incident --- it was clear that these two men represented the 'true' heterosexuals. They were from a society which now accepts boyfriend-girlfriend, at least in public places. But the practise has not caught on and there is no pressure on men to have girlfriends. Yet that they chose to have girlfriends points to the possibility of them having a real need to bond with women. Apparently they were in a minority amongst thousands of people there.

    They had no need to touch me --- especially so vigourously. They had girls. This proves amply that even 'true' heterosexuals have ample sexual need for men.

    It is not availablity or non-availability of girls that make a difference. It is the heterosexualisation of the society that includes hostility towards same sex needs that does.
     
  15. Xerxes asdfghjkl Valued Senior Member

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    What country are you from?

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    If a man put his hands on my rod, he would not have any teeth left. Why'd you let him hold it for 15 seconds?!
     
  16. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    That is because you're a man-woman heterosexual queer. No real man would care to touch you. In my society its people like you who are called 'homos'.

    In fact if you meddled with that guy's teeth, you'll not have any dick left --- you poor, poor disillusioned man/ woman.

    I did not protest because we both were real straight men. And this is what real men do. Thankfully I was not a heterosexual faggot like you are.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2006
  17. Theoryofrelativity Banned Banned

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    Buddha

    You are DISHONEST


    On Your Other Thread You Claimed (95% MEN BLAH BLAH) That Your Points Re Male Bonding Was A New Idea

    YOU DARE SAY THIS when I Have Already Found The Source Of Your Marterial, A Book Written 37 Years Ago! How dare you claim this stuff as your own. Perhaps I should forward a copy of that thread to the author of that book and then he can sue you for plagurising his work and claiming it as your own


    The author was thought of a crack pot then, just as you are being now, reason...there is ZERO evidence to support any of your nonsense, you cannot prove the grass is pink.

    YOU ARE A Plaguriser
     
  18. Theoryofrelativity Banned Banned

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  19. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    Will the moderators please lock this thread too. Now when I'm asked to leave sciforums, the least the moderators can do is to stop people from writing filth that I would not be here to answer.

    This is unfair. If I am gone, let my threads be closed too.
     
  20. redarmy11 Registered Senior Member

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    Buddah, I've got shocking news for you about those 'straight' men you encountered.

    Erm... they're gay.

    Or bisexual anyway.
     
  21. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    I've also got a shocking news for you.........that they represent the mainstream, majority and the macho ones.

    But may I say that it is only graceful for all of us to be quiet on this matter now.

    It will put sciforums in a still sorse light if I am made to leave, and then you are left to spread your lies on the issue. At least leave the threads that I started alone.

    I don't want to continue this discussion any more.
     
  22. redarmy11 Registered Senior Member

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    Please don't leave Buddah.

    I like you.

    I rather hope that you will bear me children someday, biologically impossible though this may be.
     
  23. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    Well I always suspected heterosexual men could conceive!

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