Martial Arts question.

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Dinosaur, Apr 28, 2002.

  1. Riomacleod Registered Senior Member

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    CJ: if I had to put my money down, it would probably be on Akido. The throws have a distinct advantage over grappling, in that you are supposed to end up standing above an attacker, plus you're still usually holding onto some part of their body.

    Admittedly, I'm not a fighter. the closest thing i've gotten to hand-to-hand combat was in 4th grade when some guy twice my size came at me and I tossed him over my shoulder (that was SO cool though). Frankly, I don't want to be in fights. They're bad. I mean, the only way you can get punched in the face is if you're in a fight, right?

    Incidentally it's much easier to kick them in the face when someone's on the ground at your feet, too.

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    You know, if you just absolutely MUST kick someone in the face.

    Or you could just play Tekken 4.
     
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  3. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    Dabok in Taekwon-Do...(sorry if the spelling is wrong, it's with a short "a" like in dUck)
     
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  5. Gifted World Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    Thanks Cactus Jack.
     
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  7. Cactus Jack Death Knight of Northrend Registered Senior Member

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    No prob Gifted, and to Riomacleod and everyone else, I feel that all martial arts are useful but going on and on about which style really isn't I don't feel now, some Bruce Lee quotes:

    "I do not teach because I do not believe in styles anymore. I mean I do not believe that there is such a thing as, like, "the Chinese way"of fighting or the "Japanese way" of fighting...or whatever "way" of fighting, because unless a human being has three arms and four legs, there can be no different form of fighting. But, basically, we only have two hands and two feet. So styles tend to seperate man-because they have thier own doctrines and the doctrine became Gospel truth that you cannot change! But, if you do not have styles, if you say "here I am as a human being. How can I express myself totally and completely?"=now that way, you won't create a style because style is crystallization. That way (the opposite of style) is a process of continuing growth."

    On why man is always more important than style
    "Man is always in a learning process. Whereas "style" is a concluding, established, solidified something, you know? You cannpt do that because you learn every day as you grow on, grow older."

    Basically my theory is (and Bruce Lees in other writtings) if you want to be a true martial artist study many arts and take the essence of them that you need to express/defend yourself correctly. And make them your own, be a man, a constantly learning and creating indvidual. Incorporate and change.

    Just a little insight from a martial arts obssesed guy, Peace Out.
    ~Cactus.
     
  8. freefighter187 Registered Senior Member

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    you people havent the right to give opinions when you are lackina knowledge base and seem to have no real abilities. Even the people you know who you think have skill and talent are lacking. People can sprint longer than a min with the right fear behind them to drive them. A kicker can and will kick you in the head if hes good. Simple as that striaght up.:bugeye: The adrenalin surge stories are unplausible sometimes but super abilities are a fact when danger is present. Thats why a cornered martial artist with five guys around him is not someone you want to f with by all means. There is no one art better than another, its all in the individual fighter. JKD is the best because it is all of the arts.
     
  9. Cactus Jack Death Knight of Northrend Registered Senior Member

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    Your Reply is Kind of Muddled

    I believe that you simply restated in a less cogent way some of the things I had been trying to express in this thread. Basically that man is more important than a style, that a street fighter could beat a 4th degree black belt, and that you should not limit yourself or disrespect others based upon their style.

    Also, what do you mean by:

    "you people havent the right to give opinions when you are lackina knowledge base and seem to have no real abilities. Even the people you know who you think have skill and talent are lacking."

    Not only would I like this clarified but I would also like to understand how you know so much about the martial arts capabilities of all the members who have posted on this thread? And I am very confused by the: Even the people you know who you think have skill and talent are lacking. Statement

    And finally, at the end of your post you almost contradicted yourself, you sad that there is no one, best style yet you claim: JKD is the best because it is all of the arts. Now I agree that the philosophies Bruce Lee based his Martial System are in agreement with our ideas on man is more important than style. But the simple act of creating a system is contradictory to this. And JKD practintioners will frequently be like practitioners of other styles and limit themselves to those teachings. I find this many times in life, when one individual throughout their lives is in a constant state of growth and learning and refining thier ideas and when they try to express this to others it simply ends up being another system that they would have rebelled against.

    Anyway Peace Out

    ~Cactus
     
  10. freefighter187 Registered Senior Member

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    To reconcile

    cactus jack, iwas by no means about to contradict myself, since as you understand jkd is not a style but an idea, not original in itself but better known to most. In consideration to my qoute about all the others here not having an opinion, this statement may be a little strong. Although when inferior fighters such as are undoubtbly here present an opinion about martial arts as a fact just because of there lack of ability, leads me to little choice. The reason i dont believe any of you even know anyone with enough ability to give a concrete opinion is that i doubt they know one of the top 10 fighters in the world. Thats what it takes to give a strong opinion. This is a position i will secure in a short time. Seemingly dillusional, maybe, maybe not. I do have a wide range of experience in the martial arts for someone of my age. I love grappling and am very skilled, yet i dont find grappling to ever be effective against a higher level fighter. I base my praise of myself on the fact that ive never lost a jiu-jitsu or wrestling match, ever. Not in class, not playing around, not in tournaments. Expect to be seeing my name. I believe however that this is even a weakness when compared to my striking ability. My jabs and striaght leads are hard to see and still harder to block. Im 60% kicker though and yes, i think i could kick each one of you in the head. Especially with my ubber powerful and deliciously quick front snap. One of thoughs in the mouth is not fun. As for knocking down the supporting leg, what about that huge thing still coming at you. And has no one failed to notice that savate doesnt require a balancing leg.Same with capoiera. Basically stated, telling my skills is evidence of my ability and right to give a valid opinion, not bragging. All who keep up with martial arts tournemants will be seeing me rising up out of nothing pretty soon, ive just begun. Whether the tourney be grappling or no. One more thing, although guns are an effective method of defending yourself, wouldnt it be cool if guns were made illegal to carry, therefore making martial arts more formidable. It does take away a little bit of are rights but is it not at everyones benefit. Of this i have no valid opinion so feel free to criticize. Everything i have said here about my abilities is completely true, as my character is not satisfied by false bragging, so take what i say in the light of truth if you will, dont come back with a yeah right, he dont know nothing.

    haha long enough lol

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    Anyone email me here if you want to debate privaltely about martial arts. Its my life.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2003
  11. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    6,230
    I think that there definitely are best styles, depending on what a person's goal is. Are you interested in self defense? Exercise? Competition? People get involved in martial arts for a lot of different reasons and some styles match up with particular goals better than others.
     
  12. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    I agree that grappling styles seem to be the most effective but it really all depends on the individual. In reality bruce lee could have beaten the 3 best grapplers in history all at the same time. But he wasn't your average striker I suppose.

    I've been in lots of real fights and the grab with one hand-pound with the other technique has worked well with similar sized opponents, the dance and sting technique has worked well with larger opponents, haven't lost yet, but I'm fully aware I could lose against anyone at anytime.
    I try to avoid fights now I've grown up a bit.
     
  13. freefighter187 Registered Senior Member

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    pay attention

    did you not listen to what i said Dr. lou natic. Grabs are not truly effective against anyone who can really fight. You have either been lucky by far or youve been fighting people you know you can beat i think.i say this loving jiu jistu personally.

    As for nasor, martial arts is by definition the art of fighting, there is no other degree. If people use it to exercise, then it is exercize, not martial arts. Self defense is still fighting and so are competitions. Not only that but did you not notice we were talking about opposing arts in combat, not exercise.

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  14. BLASTOFF Registered Senior Member

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    freefighter187/ i have trained with the ex european champion jeff bullock, i even beat him a few times, and i can kick in the head as well, i to am fast and have never lost a bout in a tournament, or on the mat, i now teach along side my master, but in these days there are some very strong up and coming fighters, on that you must agree.
     
  15. freefighter187 Registered Senior Member

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    Im the new

    On this i completly agree blastoff. This is because i am one of the very strong up and coming fighters. I am a strange class of fighter though. A big strong lightweight with tremendous speed. At 6' 2 , 170lbs i am extremely light for my height as a fighter.My weight doesnt reflect my strength though, currently benching up towards 300 and ive just recently begun lifting. Powerful legs to with a 600 lb squat is were i generate those kicks. Yet due to a relativly small muscle mass i retain much speed, even rely on it. Ive studied tae kwon doe, jiu-jitsu, jeet kun do, boxing and wing chun. This may seem arrogant but ever since i was little ive wanted to be the best fighter ever and thats my intent so i have no fear of these up and coming fighters, as i am the best of the bunch. This may seem all opinionary, but it wont in time.i understand you guys are all probably fighters in your own right but do you wake up thinking it, reading it watching it, training, learning, and desiring to be the best, not just good. I do but then im still in school so this is made difficult.

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  16. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    I have no intention or will to be the best in the arena
    it's just my lifestyle, not a constest
    doesn't mean that I can't kick ass though

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    just have another approach to it

    I'm 1.73 m tall and 55kg in weight, work mostly on my speed
     
  17. freefighter187 Registered Senior Member

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    i agree

    good for you avator,
    speed is the greatest advantage a fighter can have against someone of equal skill.

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  18. MooseKnuckle Registered Senior Member

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    154
    Ok Ill break this down for you guys-

    Im sure that at least some of you have heard of UFC or Pride. Those are the two most popular mixed martial arts organizations in the world. Now if you look at the most successful fighters you know what you will find.....Grapplers.

    Wrestling and Brazilian ju-jitsu are by far the most sucessfull styles. Now these are the best fighters in the world.

    If you incorporate some striking into your fighting style then thats all the better. If you are swayed by watching hollywood movies than you are on the wrong path.

    Heres a list of the top fighters and their respective disciplines

    Heavyweight- Fedor Emelianenko(Pride) and Tim Sylvia(UFC)
    Fedor- Judo/sambo Tim- Wrestling

    Light Heavyweight- Wanderlai Silva(Pride) and Tito Ortiz(UFC)
    Silva-Muay Thai Tito- Wrestling/Submission

    Welterweights- Matt Hughes(UFC)
    Matt-Wrestling

    Lightweights-Duane Ludwig(UFC)
    Duane- Muay Thai

    All of the best fighters incorporate grappling and use strikes to maintain a distance. Striking can be crucial on the ground, but you first need to learn how to get into the position to initiate the striking.

    If you watch these competitions you'll see that they end up on the ground (usually quite early) You cannot rely on strikes without any grappling experience.

    If you search on Kazaa you can find some UFC or Pride fights and watch how the best fighters fight.

    Whoever said that Bruce Lee could beat the top 3 grapplers in the world is obviously delusional. Bruce Lee would get pummeled to a pulp. How would he react to a double leg takedown? He would be oblivious to ground techniques.

    So in conclusion a good combination of striking and grappling would be the best. I would put more emphasis on grappling but striking is important also.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2003
  19. freefighter187 Registered Senior Member

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    wrong mooseknuckle

    mooseknuckle you seem to be under the impression that ufc fighters are good fighters. Even if they are good the majority of them get into ufc because it is grappling geared to begin with. I also study brazilian jiu jistu and you would be a fool to enter a truly free range tourney with just that. True though that if by chance they do get a hold of you you should switch to grappling instead of trying to strike. Grappling has its place if you arent a superb striker only.
     
  20. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

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    Mooseknuckle
    bruce lee wasn't just a movie star who could choreograph fights.
    He was the single greatest fighter the world has ever seen and that naturally made him a star.
    He could have easily beat the 3 best grapplers. Double leg take down? They never would have got a chance to touch him.
    He has simulataneously beat 10 trained martial artists at one time in real life.
    He specialised in being able to take out a crowd of people extremely quickly.
    This wasn't a publicity stunt.
    He was the real deal and alot of people don't realise that.
     
  21. MooseKnuckle Registered Senior Member

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    this is what i said- So in conclusion a good combination of striking and grappling would be the best.

    No this is wrong, you are wrong. If you only rely on striking then you will be taken down by a grappler and you wont know what to do and will be beaten badly.

    So what do you have to say about grapplers being dominant in UFC/Pride??? Cause they also have the worlds best strikers and you saw the top of the list- Grapplers.

    Its called Mixed Martial Arts......many different disciplines compete.

    Go to Sherdog.com and go on to the forums and spurt your crap to them, im sure they will love your ideas.....hahahahahaha
     
  22. MooseKnuckle Registered Senior Member

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    Ok guys.(Dr.Lou and FreeFighter) I posted what you said on Sherdog( the biggest MMA site) This is the first response I received........

    More responses to come. Im sorry to act like an asshole but really dont say stupid shit like that. You guys are wrong, its not a problem just think about what you say next time

    This was the second response, and if you cant tell he is using what we call "sarcasm"
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2003
  23. freefighter187 Registered Senior Member

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    dumb moosedung

    you are the spurter of the crap., jack-ass. These guys arent crap, i will be the best fighter ever you watch. The point is that a grappler cannot grab a good striker. simple as that. I have much experience and grabbing is for if you have been grabbed. I know people that could break a grapplers hand with a punch if they even made a grab attempt. Another thing, reach. Last time i checked, legs are longer than arms, amd much stronger. Bye Bye grappler against a proficient kicker. You have a condescending tone not suitable for a wanna be fighter

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