Man, the predator.(The Killer Ape Theory)

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by TimeTraveler, Apr 19, 2007.

  1. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

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    because it kills large prey oppose to its dolphin kin wich usualy preys on small fish? and can kill humans?

    killer whales hunt in tight knit family packs and are very loyal to each other as far as i know.

    peace.
     
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  3. Mrhero54 Registered Senior Member

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    I find the killer ape theory lacking. People unlike most animals, have a huge frontal lube for higher cognitive function. That means were have more varibles to consider before we act, as opposed to an animal that would follow instinct and emotion.

    Futhermore, humans are more individualistic than any other creature. There are few human behaviors that can be ascribed to all humans because we are so different. The multidue of factors like, environment, genetics, intelligence, culture etc. that effect our behavior all weight differently in each person.

    thus to say that people kill each other because of a killer instinct that has stayed with us since or knuckle draggin days is a poor explanation for all the different varietes of killers, and killings. I think a more percise explanation would be that the complicated tangle of factors influencing people sometimes creates killers and sometimes doesnt.

    But there is no instinct to kill.
     
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  5. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-57041274.html

     
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  7. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

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    i assumed such behaviour existed, i just didnt think it was as common among dolphines as compared to humans,

    thanks for the info though i didnt know alot of that. i doubt they are trying to kill small males to counter later competition for mating, they probably just wanted to kill because they were pissed off or bored

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    what about the killer whales though, i didnt think they killed each other much, i thought they were like a tight knit killing unit working together and cooperating for food,

    i havent studied them much though.

    peace.
     
  8. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    You're right.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orca
    Obvious racists.

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  9. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

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    i agree and dissagree with your statement. key points are that our killer instinct is probably still with us because simply we are animals and always will be, but this doesent just indicate that we have a killer instinct towards other humans, more so that we just have a killer instrinct and we will kill if we have to or infact want to,


    i dont believe this theory is in whole true, but it does have its good points and does remind us that we are animals and do have instincts. we do act on impulse just as much as we do on thought process, and this is proven in everyday life, "think about it"

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    we always say sorry to each other, we always act on emotion every day, and we do think things through alot aswell,


    you are right aswell but he does have good points in his theory, im not saying the theory in its entirety is correct and bullet proof, but it does have its merits and could spawn good debate from its root.


    peace.
     
  10. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member

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    Okay highlight the variety of killers. Obviously you cannot deny that some killers DO have the killer instinct, and do recieve enjoyment out of killing and hunting. Some people are predators, and just because you are not, it does not mean it's like that for all.
     
  11. Mrhero54 Registered Senior Member

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    Allow me to clarify Force of Chi And Time Traveler

    I think Force of CHi and Time Traveler we aren't on the same page with our understanding of the killer ape theory.

    When I read the excerpt about the killer ape instinct, i interpreted as meaning that the most violent species of apes became the most succesful ones, because they were good hunters and willing to kill other apes for resources, thus their success allowed them to evole into what became humans. It went on to say that humans contiuned to evolve but we retained this killer instinct that continues to cause people to kill today. At least, that is what i got and understand.

    THink about this, when animals kill they usually have only a handful of possible reasons behind. Here they are[defense, protecting territory, food, enemy species, fear...did i miss any? There may be a few more, but the point is that these are instinctal or emotional reasons to kill. People kill for things way beyond and far less than instinct and emotion. People will kill for reason.

    So basically, I am saying is that people are too complex as individuals for any one theory to explain the vastly different types of killers and killings that occur. People kill for reasons that animals never would or could and that has everything to do with our more developed brain and nothing to do with a killer instinct.

    Consider some of the ways only people kill. Religious or political warfare (people will kill complete strangers for no other reason than their "god" or "gov" said so.) Pleasure or Thrill Killer/Murder (What other animal would methodically kill is own kind for the sheer enjoyment of it?) Suicde(What animal would kill itself out of self-pity?)Group Approved Execution(What animals would decide to kill another animal because other group members said so?) Should I go on?

    Everyone with a functioning body and brain has the ABILITY to kill someone. But everyone does not has the CAPACITY or WILLINGNESS to kill someone else even in a life or death situation(Jesus, or a total pacificist, or coward....some people would die running or cowering rather than fighting).

    The Killer ape theroy might explain why some ape species out-lived others but it is too simple to explain the complex social behavior that contributes to things like the VT shooting. :m:
     
  12. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member

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    This is pretty much true for humans, so why wouldnt it be true for Apes? Look at Africans, they weren't violent enough and did not have the military to protect their resources, and as a result, other countries raided their land, enslaved them, and physically took the resources by force.

    Why did this happen? Because the takers were willing to kill for those resources. The Africans simply had less of a killer instinct, or less of an ability to kill due to lack of weaponry. But if you look at human history, might makes right. He who has the biggest club makes the rules. That's compatible with Killer Ape theory.

    Exactly. Humans kept the killer instinct. This is why humans today are capable of the same sorts of things they were capable of yesterday, or a thousand years ago, or five thousand years ago. The only difference is our weapons are better.

    People kill because they feel like killing stuff.

    No, most people have no reason to kill other people. The reasons are created after the fact in some cases, after the killing has started. Sometimes the reason is need for money, which comes from greed. Greed is an emotion.

    Humans are animals. Humans are slaves to their instincts like all the other animals, and only a rare human has the self control to ignore their instincts.

    Some humans have the instinct to kill whatever is weaker than them. This same instinct is why dogs chase cats, and why cats chase mice, the only problem with this is that the cat or dog is chasing another species while the human hunts it's own species.

    We are not talking about these people. These people believe what they are doing is right and ethical.

    The killer instinct explains that some humans ENJOY killing. Do you understand what that means? The killer instinct is an instinct to kill, they might just spontaneously feel like killing something.

    I never said 100% of everyone had the killer instinct.
    The point is, everyone can kill, however pacifists can't kill because their religion says they can't. It does not mean they literally cannot physically do it, they just believe in a heaven and would rather die without having to kill. I can't say it's practical, I think ethics are situational, but I do think some people will decide never to kill no matter what.

    The VT shooter, did not value life. Did not value the lives of the students, or his own life. I don't think the VT shooter had the killer instinct by the killer ape theory definition of it, but the VT shooter had the brain chemistry to be suicidal. The killer instinct is not the only instinct that can cause people to kill, the killer instinct just explains why people are aggressive. Suicidal people, can kill too, because they don't value their own life, they don't have a reason to value anyone elses life either.
     
  13. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    Reading this, I would suggest that apes kill for survival and people kill for passion. What say you?
     
  14. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

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  15. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

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    i would say people kill for many many reasons.

    money,
    power,
    land
    religion


    the list could go on and on, but also people kill for no reason atall, well there is a "reason" but not a survival related reason, some people kill because they like to kill, some people kill because somebody looked at them wrong,

    people kill because they want to kill simple as that. anything could provoke a human to kill, i think if we had no laws, everybody would be dead, dying or in the process of killing someboy.

    we like to kill we like to fight, we like to take stuff from others,

    because we can

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    peace.
     
  16. pinkiss Registered Senior Member

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    by my responce to the thread i meant that if people kill-it is not called instinct or smth.It is mental illness and rules/laws make a line between us and animals.animals kill for food,and humans kill for the mental instability which occures by many reasons but not instincts.
     
  17. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member

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    http://www.plausiblefutures.com/getfile.php/51711.476/might.pdf

    Might makes right


    But this is not the same as Killer Ape Theory.
     
  18. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Wasn't this theory discarded years ago due to lack of evidence?
     

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