Man Has Never Set Foot on Moon

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by BrainWithAGun, Apr 23, 2003.

?

Have we been to the moon?

  1. Of course not.

    26 vote(s)
    13.1%
  2. Of course so.

    173 vote(s)
    86.9%
  1. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    930
    Here's some more stuff if anyone wants to delve further.

    (close this space)
    ht tp://es (dot) youtube (dot) com/results?search_query=moonfaker&search_type=&aq=f
     
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  3. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    930
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  5. CptBork Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,460
    I remember a few months ago watching a Discovery Channel documentary on the moon landing and associated hoax claims. They pretty much covered every conspiracy argument I've ever heard, along with the evidence, and more or less ripped it up into shreds of scrap, often by conducting detailed experiments to test various claims. Also there is a mirror that astronauts left on the moon, so labs on Earth can hit it with a laser, measure the time it takes for the laser to reach the moon and return, and thus calculate the precise distance from Earth to moon and the associated orbit. If 1970's computing power was supposedly not good enough to enable the moon landings, I don't know how the heck NASA could have put that mirror there and aligned it so perfectly.
     
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  7. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,890
    On the Radiation "Issue"

    Look up the Southern Magnetic Anomaly and try again.

    Both the HST and the ISS pass through it on a regular basis.

    Also, the Van Allen Belt extends from 200-1000 km above the earth out to a maximum extent of 7 Earth Radii (according to Introduction to Geomagnetically Trapped Radiation by Martin Walt (1994).)

    According to NASA, the average velocity of the Apollo CMSM units after the Translunar Injection Burn was approximately 10.4 km/s.

    This means that they would transverse the 43,997 ([7*6371]-[[200+1000]/2]km of the inner and outer van allen radiation belts in 1 hour and 10 minutes.

    According to NASA's "Ask an Astrophysicist" A satelite orbiting in the Van Allen belts receives a dose of 2500 REM/year (assuming shielding of 3mm of Aluminium), so astronauts passing through the belts in 70 minutes would receive a dose of 330 miliREM, which, according to the USNRC is less than the annual dose recieved from background radiation, so Radiation is NOT the issue it's being made out to be.
     
  8. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,888
    Hey, don't try to deflect a woo woo from his cherished delusions with facts.
    Tch, he might learn something and where would we be then?
     
  9. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,890
    Heh. I'm sorry.
     
  10. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,105
    And lets say if you went to the moon and had a number of people asking questions over and over again, inferring you'd never been there. How would you react? I mean you could answer their questions over and over again, but eventually it would just get too much having every significance junky trying to debunk their significance. It would cause stresses on marriages and likely increase the need to escape through alcohol or any other method. So perhaps they just didn't realise how their private lives would be effected by something at the time that would have been coined to be "an unbelievable adventure and heroism".
     
  11. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    33,264
    Actually that is correct now that I think about it, man has set two feet on the moon then even more little piggies went there as well!
     
  12. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,888
    Nah, it wasn't feet, it was space suit boots.
     
  13. Saven Registered Member

    Messages:
    209
    Can't believe anyone voted no.
     
  14. stereologist Escapee from Dr Moreau Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    685
    This notion is so stupid that the moon landings were faked that there is only 1 possibility:

    It's realtors trying to cash in on the first condos on the moon that are trying to jack up the prices by claiming you can be the first to be on the moon. PsychoticEpisode is in fact a card carrying thug of the 21st Century Gang, a nefarious group of moonscape salesmen bent on lining their own pockets with ill gotten gains. Furthermore Fat Freddy is a moon man fawning for affection from females from earth.
     
  15. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,885
    If men had gotten to the moon they would have been eaten by the lunar natives who must be eager to eat something other than the cheese that the moon is made of.
     
  16. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    930
    I see you're discussing radiation. Have you seen this info about Van Allen?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2rotplZn0g

    I'm going to post this whole article in case it ever goes off-line.
    http://www.buzzcreek.com/grade-a/MOON/articles1.htm

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In the early 1950's, a 35-year-old State University of Iowa physics professor and some of his students were cruising the cold waters ofnorthern Canada and the Atlantic Ocean, sending a series ofrocket-carrying balloons- which they dubbed "rockoons" - 12 to 15 miles into space.

    They were trying to measure the nature of low-energy cosmic raysswirling around the earth. The experiments continued for five more years. Then, in 1958,Professor James Van Allen discovered his monster. Suddenly, his instrumentation warned of a giant beast of a thing, spewing enough deadly radiation counts to kill any human who ventured into its domain unprotected.

    Van Allen and his students weren't sure of the size, shape and texture of the monster, they just knew they had encountered an incredible phenomenon.

    Then, in l958, as part of the International Geophysical Year (a year in which men like James A. Van Allen were praised for exploring the realms of time and space) the young professor asked the U.S. military to send his experiments deeper into space, this time using a Geiger Counter to measure the intensity of the radiation. He further requested the most sophisticated rockets that would penetrate l00,000 miles into space.

    That's when the monster grew all encompassing. It appeared to surround the entire earth and extend out some 65,000 miles, maybe even 100,000 miles. The Geiger Counter confirmed that the region above the earth, and in the path of the rocket, was cooking with deadly radiation. That radiation was born from solar flares that would race through the universe and become trapped by the earth's magnetic field. A deadly mixture of protons and electrons.

    It was then that Van Allen realized the Aurora Borealis, the northern lights, was actually a visual manifestation of that tremendous energy from the sun. You could actually see the radiation swirling in a magnificent and deadly dance. His eventual finding of two such lethal radiation belts, put his name in the history books as the man who discovered the Van Allen Radiation Belts. There was an inner belt and an outer belt. The inner belt went from 40 degrees north and south of the Equator and was basically a doughnut surrounding the earth. Scientific experiments conducted by Van Allen and the military proved that belt was so deadly that no human could survive in its orbit. The outer belt was equally as destructive, and separated from the inner belt by an area of lesser radiation.

    Van Allen's conclusion was delivered in a speech to the Academy of Science in 1959. He warned future space travelers they would have to race through these two zones on their way to outer planets.

    "All manned space flight attempts must steer clear of these two belts of radiation until adequate means of safeguarding the astronauts has been developed" he said. Moreover, Van Allen advised they would have to be shielded with some extra layers of protection beyond that of the spacecraft itself. These findings were also published in Scientific American Magazine, March, 1959.

    Two years later, Van Allen updated his report in Space World Magazine, December, 1961. In brief, he reported that everything he had found in 1959 was still valid. It was also in that year that President John F. Kennedy told an assembled group of students and dignitaries at Rice University in Houston, that it was America's destiny to put a man on the moon by the end of the decade. With that statement, the space race become a political game, worth 30 billion in taxpayer dollars to the winners. National Aeronautic and Space Administration (NASA), which is part of the Department of Defense and the CIA, became the caretaker of Kennedy's dream.

    It was their job to build a spacecraft that would meet Van Allen's scientific requirements of safety through the radiation belts. Van Allen stated that the ship's skin, made of aluminum, would not be enough protection for the astronauts. Extra shielding of lead or another substance that would absorb the radiation would be needed. That, of course, posed the problem of weight. More weight created a booster problem. In other words, they would need a bigger rocket to carry a ship that was properly lined against radiation penetration. One of the most interesting of Van Allen's findings was that once protons and electrons hit the aluminum skin of the spacecraft, they would turn into x-rays. The kind the average dentist protects patients against with two inch lead vests. Those rays would naturally penetrate the astronaut's bodies and create anything from nausea and vomiting to eventual death, depending on the length of the exposure.

    All of this scientific data presented a big problem for NASA. How could they build a spacecraft that would meet radiation standards and yet get off the ground?

    The National Committee on Radiation Protection (NCRP) and the International Commission on Radiological Protection (ICRP) had established low "permissible doses" of radiation at levels that were consistent with living on earth. However, where the critical dosage on earth might be 5 rems of radiation in a year, the astronauts would receive that amount within minutes passing through the lower zone of the radiation belt.

    In order to penetrate Van Allen's belt, in l965 NASA requested the two regulatory groups modify the existing standards for space flight. It was simply a matter of "risk over gain" and NASA convinced them to change the standards and allow them to take the risk. Whether or not future astronauts would be advised of these dramatically lowered standards and substantial risk is unknown at this time.

    The next problem NASA faced was the shielding of the spacecraft. It was solved in a report NASA issued in Aerospace Medicine Magazine in 1965 and 1969. The report was written prior to the first Apollo mission to the moon.

    NASA announced that a simple aluminum skin on the command module was enough to protect astronauts from lethal doses of radiation. This conclusion was based on studies NASA had conducted. Now NASA had ingeniously solved their two basic problems, protection and weight. They had eliminated the danger of radiation penetration, along with the problem of radiation shielding and spacecraft weight. We telephoned North American Rockwell, the builder of the Command Module which carried the astronauts to the moon and back. They verified that the craft was not protected by any additional shielding.

    It was at this point in our research that we realized the Van Allen Report had been seriously compromised by NASA. Professor Van Allen had become an icon in the scientific community for warning of radiation dangers. One of his most important tenets was that even if you raced quickly through the 65,000 mile belt, which starts 400 miles above the earth's surface (thus allowing for inner space travel) you would still need considerable additional shielding. Were his findings now bogus? We had to speak to Van Allen.

    Professor James A. Van Allen now 83, is Professor Emeritus in Geophysics at the University of Iowa. Our first question was why he did not speak up after NASA's claims and defend his original findings. Astonishingly, he told us that his seminal Scientific American article
    in 1959 was merely "popular science."

    "Are you refuting your findings?" we asked.

    "Absolutely not," he answered, "I stand by them." In the next breath, Van Allen again acquiesced to NASA's point of view. He became positively mercurial in his answers. Basically he defended NASA's position that any material, even aluminum without shielding, was adequate to protect the astronauts from the radiation he once called deadly. When we asked him the point of his original warning about rushing through the Belt, he said, "It must have been a sloppy statement." So there we were, down the rabbit hole, chasing Van Allen through halls of mirrors. Was he taking the line of least resistance to government pressure? Was he trashing his own report in order not to be labeled a whistle blower? Could this renowned scientist actually be capable of a "sloppy statement" and blatant hyperbole published in a scientific journal?
    If you don't believe we went to the moon, then you will say that NASA created the perfect cover story. It allowed them to continue receiving funding for a spacecraft they could not build, to enter a region of space they could not penetrate. If you believe we went to the moon, then you have to disregard Van Allen's years of research and published findings. You would also have to believe that aluminum, and not lead, is adequate protection against radiation in the very heart of the Belt. . .exactly the spot where Apollo rocket ships entered from Cape Canaveral in Florida.
     
  17. FatFreddy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    930
    Here's some more stuff about space radiation.

    http://www.geocities.com/apollotruth/
    (excerpt)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    There is an old saying that "A liar needs a good memory". Nowhere is this more true than in the Apollo program. NASA tell lies to cover up previous lies, and other discrepancies uncovered by people investigating the Moon landings. Altering previous data, removing photographs, and retracting statements made, only re-enforces the evidence that NASA are on the run, and being forced into a corner to which they cannot escape. The actions of those under investigation makes the investigator more aware they are bluffing. The longer that person, or persons, who make the extravagant claims continue, the more lies they have to tell in order to counteract it, until it reaches the point where it becomes ridiculous. That point was passed in July 1999, when NASA officials were questioned about the Moon landings on television. They dodged the all important questions like a drifter dodges the heat.
    Many Apollo astronauts have long since died, as to have many of the original NASA officials involved in the scam, consequently current officials, who know that Apollo was a fake, have not quite got it right when talking openly in public. Perhaps the biggest slip of the tongue was made by NASA Chief Dan Goldin when interviewed by UK TV journalist Sheena McDonald in 1994. He said that mankind cannot venture beyond Earth orbit, 250 miles into space, until they can find a way to overcome the dangers of cosmic radiation. He must have forgot that they supposedly sent 27 astronauts 250,000 miles outside Earth orbit 36 years earlier.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vENebR5hsRs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ65d30kYME

    two sets of radiation data
    http://hey_223.tripod.com/bulldoglebeautaketooooo/id82.html
    (excerpt)
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    To prove his thesis, Rene tries to get certain solar data from NATIONAL
    OCEANIC & ATMOSPHERIC ADMINISTRATION, (NOAA) using clever techniques
    to
    disguise his true intentions, [i.e. to get true data on solar flares.] NOAA,
    unfortunately, proved to be as cagey as Rene in dodging the giving out of any
    really good DETAILS on this matter, [you know, where the devil resides.]
    Rene, seeing games being played, deduced that there must be two sets of data,
    one which is sent to scientists on the preferred list, and one sent to the
    likes of Rene as casual strangers. (p.125)
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    http://ocii.com/~dpwozney/apollo5.htm
    http://www.erichufschmid.net/MoreInfoForScienceChallenge.html
    http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=9659&hl=apollo
    http://pseudonautics.blogspot.com/

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKB5u_VTt6M
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcytzf7PkRA
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6DhY1NvmIc
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1ltWMbHdDU
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnckudD9oa8
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiTzo3G_hvo
    ---------------------------
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFiIR7hA1rM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toI1Xw9paW4
    ---------------------------
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xlKooAbKpM
    (23 parts)
     
  18. icarus2 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    132
    I beleive that we have ever been to the moon.
     
  19. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,252
    Do you mean "never been to the moon" or that we've been doing it for ages?
     
  20. icarus2 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    132
    Of course not. 24 12.57%
    Of course so 167 87.43%
     
  21. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,252
    Which answers nothing on the question I asked you.
     
  22. mike47 Banned Banned

    Messages:
    2,117
    If the US did not go to the moon then why did they say they did ?.
    It does not seem to be any good reason .
     
  23. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,397
    The conspiracy theorists tell us the the US government lied about the moon landings in order to one-up the Soviet Union.
     

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