Maker of religiously critical film shot dead

She opposed a despot powerful enough to kill her and one she believes oppressed her for many years.

You have spent the last 2 pages trying to justify a murderers actions, shall I quote you? The pill is the same which christians, jews or any other fanatics had to swallow in exchange for living in a free country and being protected from harm by it's laws. Perfect? no, but it is a damn sight better than living in a country where you can be killed for expressing your thoughts or feelings and it can only exist if we defend it.

 

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Wrong. But this great fact will not save my life.

If someone there tells now that he is going to make a film now with koranic texts written on an actress' butts he would certainly be called 'NUTS', people would expect his upward journey to be soon, the court may porbably ban his film in public interest as well as his own.

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Great.

Where 'honor' comes into the picture? Put honor killers in jail, none will dare to kill for honor. That is not the case with someone who believes that his own life as well as others' is not so important when koran is deliberately offended.

Man, be practical. Or get ready to be knights templar. or Bush.

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Then you agree it is wrong.

Wrong, controversial perhaps but not nuts and no court that I know of will put restrictions on freedoms which are part of law. If they did this then all it would take is someone to kill a feminist and voila! feminism curtailed for the ladies own good or kill a socialist and voila! etc etc. you get the picture.

What has been offended? a book? Allah? Muslims? What about them has been offended?

Does your notion of practicality include surrendering your freedoms to special interest groups?
An apt quote from Ben Franklin
"He who would surrender liberty for safety deserves neither liberty nor safety."
So defending your civil liberties means you are going knights templar or Bush now?

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I would like to know what that feminist did, who is the f**ker that killed the bitch.

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Better ask the muslims first.

No. It is about knowing what is 'my' freedom.

Another quote for you :
My freedom to swing my hands stops at my neighbour's nose.

Von tried to pick the wrong nose it seems.

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You are wasting you fingertips, path. This guy is either incredibly retarded, a fascist, or probably both. Just let him offend someone and get killed for it, he obviously won't mind.

 

So again you think circumstances could justify murder?

I think you can figure it out

Look it up in a law book where you live and you will find out.

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No, you just backed me up it means you cannot STRIKE your neighbor.

Some more quotes from NL for you

Understand?

Apparently some people of faith can in fact hold themselves within the rule of law.

 

You just fadeaway, humper.

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Well, you may be a sad, pathetic human being, but at least you seem to have a (not particularly brilliant) sense of humour, I'll give you that.

 

Not a brilliant judgement. I am neither sad nor pathetic. I think i am human.

 

While the question stands in general, the point to which you responded with the above has more to do with the pretense motivating the question. Legitimate questions are not served well by illegitimate framing.

You diminish Theo van Gogh's murder by treating it in such a manner.

Is that what he deserves?

 

And just how do YOU treat it, pray tell? As a natural disaster, an unfortunate accident that came out of the blue, perhaps?

 

Hey welcome to the thread see how many errors you can find it really does help deal with the issues. Did BW's comment not diminish Theo van Gogh's murder? No "that is sad BUT"..... or "That was wrong BUT".... Maybe just maybe I was a little incensed at the time. Is that OK with you T?

Do you have any relevant input or did you just want to pop in to address issues of style?

 

Path,
I went to the bookstore yesterday and while I was in there I went to the "Social Sciences" Section and noticed that there was 47 books about Islam and/or the M.E. and 31 of them could be considered hostile (i.e. Islam Religion of terror or Prophet of Death etc....) yet i dont here anything about these authors lives being in danger nor did I (as a muslim) wanna go kill any of these authors. The fact is that anti-Islamic literature floods the market today there is no denying that. Now should these guys be killed for their views? I dont think so but when you create such a hostile enviroment you have to expect the "fringe elements" to become active. Im sorry but in my opinion most Christians dont take their religion seriously (pray on Sunday and act crazy the other 6 days) while a Muslim just isnt like that. If this film was to show your child (i dont know if you have one) in this same light (naked etc) would you want to kill the author? most people would and thats how most Muslims feel about their religion....just look at some things that have been posted in just this thread:

.




There is a thread running about 100k dead since the Iraq invasion maybe we should spend more time concentrating of those dead innocents rather than a filmaker who put his own life in knowing jeopardy :m:

 

You can't tell the difference between an innocent child and your stupid cult, can you?

 

umm.....I dont know what cult you are refering to perhaps you should stop humping yourself and respond more intelligently

 

That is just part of living in a society where you have a right to express your views, you also can be sued for liable, or boycotted. After 9/11 the number of books critical to islam skyrocketed that market was rather small prior. If it wasn't for Osama & Co(not saying he represents islam) then I doubt there would have been as much interest in islam good or bad. I haven't said that muslims kill all critics have I?

No when we start expecting fringe elements to become active and kill their critics we have already slipped too far.

That is your opinion as a muslim undoubtedly many christians feel similarly about muslims look at DeeCees post in the "bloodthirsty" thread
he goes out drinking with muslims. That isn't too serious is it? I will tell you how I felt about insults to god and christianity back when I was a believer. The mere idea of a mortal man insulting his creator who has his very soul in the palm of his hand was just something to laugh at. How in the world can a speck of dust insult the creator of the universe?
Your analogy doesn't work, islam is not your child, you are the child of islam and as a child you know that your almighty father should have the situation well in hand.

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Just look at what prompted their posting.

Yes that is a bigger tragedy but these are seperate issues they don't excuse or exonerate eachother. Again NO his life should not have been in jeopardy.

Thanks for the reply.

PS do you think the number of books or films critical of islam is going to go up or down now? Do you think more or fewer people are going to view Submission now? Van Gogh's murder has given him more credit not less and you can't blame it on non-muslims.

 

I agree but this right is both good and bad (In my Opinion)

I agree that after 9-11 the books did skyrocket but I think there has always been interest in Islam (thus the growth in America)

No you havent and I appreciate that but plenty of blanket statements have been made that would make it seem as if this is a normal practice of Muslims

Again I agree but only Islam seems to be defined by it's "fringe" elements....did we ever use the KKK to define Christians? or Hitler? or slave owners?

I thought that was a joke but I dont know those Muslims but drinking is definatly forbidden(sp?) in Islam

EXACTLY thats what I was saying....now for me I feel as if the Creator will "lay the smack down" on the author of the crap but someone else may decide to take matters into their own hands

I only use that anology to show that when you have love for something in your heart and that something is harmed or insulted then some people will strike out or react irrationally......It definatly wasnt suppose to be taken literally(sp?) :m:

 

Once again, for those not paying attention; if you live in the west, you must live by the values of the west. I insult Islam freely, as I do Christianity. I don't much care for Judaism either, all separate hydra heads from the same monster.

All western countries are tolerant of free expression of ideas, though to varying degrees. But pointing out the stupidity of ancient superstitions is allowed. Killing those whos ideas you find offensive is not.

 

path,

It is most certainly tragic that this man lost his life in that way, and I fail to see how he could have deserved his fate. But why do you link 'faith' to this act, as this is clearly an act of anger.

Jan Ardena.

 

Holy Shit, what is wrong with people here?

OK, quick quiz: Why on earth was the murderer angry at Van Gogh?

a. Because he didn't like the colour of the victim's bicycle.

b. Because he felt that the victim had insulted his faith.

Now take a deep breath, count to three and choose wisely.