Magnetic Motor. Real or Fraud?

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by invert_nexus, Jun 26, 2005.

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  1. Light Registered Senior Member

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    Hello, Steponit,

    Yes, there's something missing here, alright.

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    The part about a magnet having energy. That's simply not correct. And the only way to extract energy from a magnetic system is to first add energy to it - such as passing a wire so that it cuts the lines of flux. And it's the motion of moving the wire that is adding the energy.

    A magnet is simply a magnet. It contains no more or no less energy than another piece of iron or steel that isn't magnetized.

    Questions?
     
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  3. Facial Valued Senior Member

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    ^^^ Agree with the above, much like how one says "gravity is energy" (refer to the Powertrain thread).
     
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  5. Trilobyte Registered Senior Member

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    "one" and only one claimed this....This individual could not be convinced to provide a logical arguement....Facial, you should have joined in!

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    ...could have helped to stir the pot....
     
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  7. kevinalm Registered Senior Member

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    Uh,no.
    Magnetizing a permanent magnet requires an energy input. (As does energizing a coil or an electromagnet) Permanent magnet devices don't tap into this energy, as it would demagnetize the magnet. You could theoretically use a magnet as a "battery" but a common NiMH would beat the pants off a permanent magnet, pound for pound.

    The important point though is that magnets obey thermodynamics and conservation of energy.
     
  8. Trilobyte Registered Senior Member

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    How do you suppose you could "tap into" the energy in a permanent magnet?
    It doesn't have any. It is true that to magnetise it requires energy but that energy is released as heat immediately afterwards. Like pushing a box on a surface, although you put energy in to change its position it decelerates and loses this energy as heat via friction soon after you stop pushing. A similar principle applies to a permanent magnet but this is for redirecting molecules/atoms and the loss is caused by photon emission.
     
  9. kevinalm Registered Senior Member

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    Well, you could wind a coil around the magnet and then heat the magnet above the Curie point. As the magnetic field colapses induction could be used to recapture part of the energy I am refering to. See any good text on E/M theory under "the volume integral of the B feild energy density over all space" or words to that effect. Also "energy storage in an inductor".

    Of course this wouldn't be practical. But to say there is no energy stored in a magnet is just plain wrong. The B energy density, along with a similar E energy density, is essentially the mechanism by which E/M _obeys_ thermodynamics and energy conservation.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2005
  10. CANGAS Registered Senior Member

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    Regardless of whether or not manipulation of magnets can gate free energy into a useful frame of reference, there is a ubiquitous practical problem. A constellium of rotating magnets large enough to be more than an amusing toy would need a stable matrix providing enough centripetal reaction so that imaginary centrifugal force would be prevented from initiating rapid unplanned autodisassembly. In the competetive marketplace nonexotic metals are an almost exclusive choice. When magnets and conductors go round together they are a one-piece Faraday disk. Such things have impressive back torque, whether in open circuit or shorted.
     
  11. Light Registered Senior Member

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    While you might very well consider it simply a matter of semantics, there is still NO energy stored in a magnet - it's in the magentic field, as you just mentioned. That's also the case with inductors as well as any coil, including superconductors. While it IS true that energy is needed to align the domains in the material, the energy applied is actually stored in the field itself (after losses, of course).

    The primary point, though - as you well put it - is that extracting energy from the field is impractical. And although it doesn't represent the full story, it's quite acceptable in all scientific circles to simply state that "a magnet contains no energy" and everyone understands what's being implied without an need to go into actual detail.

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  12. lucek Registered Member

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    1st watch as it spins up its not a gradual increase. It starts gets faster and stops completely independent of the stator.
    2nd if the magnets where as powerful as he claims when there not properly aligned they would exude force on the axle increasing resistance.
    3rd if he had a device that was a true dynamo the em field would be tremendous, enough to fry the electronics in most if not all camcorders today and for the last 20 years.
    And finally there is no evidence that magnet store energy! In fact to demagnetize a magnet requires applying a force on it.
     
  13. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    To bad they can't use their imaginations to design stuff that can actually do some good instead of this nonsense.

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  14. draqon Banned Banned

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  15. lucek Registered Member

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    So do you think that the Yamato 1 was designed in the same way as that this halfassed device was? If thats the case why don't we use guess work and fraudulent results to build buildings?
     
  16. draqon Banned Banned

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    no this device...I don't think it would work to tell you the truth. Yamato 1 has unique concept in mind however and that is to use hydromagnetic properties of fluid
     
  17. clusteringflux Version 1. OH! Valued Senior Member

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  18. boinerz Registered Member

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    This will be fun!

    Could it be that discrediting the idea is vital to copying it for profit?

    I'm building one of wood and composites to minimize Lenz effect. Plan is to have magnets easily removed for recharge after long use. Turning a DC alternator will be the initial demonstration to charge a battery.

    Think of it! If it was possible to design a rotary engine to apply torque in one direction to the drive shaft, it would be efficient. Two magnets simply create directional force applied to the shaft that overcomes the inertial moment with a net accellerating force. The idea is too simple.

    The beauty of Lenz effect is that occasional service relative to use is required. This is vital to business and creating a relationship with clients. Nothing could be better. Take the magnets out and put them between two coils and tap them a couple times. Good as new.

    -
     
  19. boinerz Registered Member

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    Scaled PDV coming...

    (The picture of my work cannot be uploaded.)


    There is so much debate about this thing.

    A magnet is doing work against gravity, doesn't fall of the wall, or discharge over time if it is not moving.

    Physics needs to clarify properties of magnetism, and allow a place for a magnet restrained from reaching a state of static equilibrium. Such a magnet is being repositioned within its flux field, doing work on mass, without degrading the flux field.

    I'm working on it.
     
  20. gmesthermax Registered Member

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    Re: Magnetic power generator

    I don't think someone really build a magnetic generator
    In any case - the closest info I could found to build magnet generator was
    this site: - can someone help here
    and let me know if this is for real?
     
  21. Believe Happy medium Valued Senior Member

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    The materials (i.e. iron) that the magnet is made of does the work against gravity. The magnetic field is not affected by gravity since they are separate forces.

    You can discharge a magnetized piece of iron (i.e. bar magnet) by dropping it, heating it up, or by running electricity through it.
     
  22. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, which is a very stupid thing to do if you are trying to extract energy - because you are actually ADDING it in each of those cases.
     
  23. TooPeaceful Registered Member

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    A fool and his money...and asinine assertions...

    Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. It is more typical for the undereducated individual to claim they are right when, in reality, they are wrong. His belief in his correctness comes from his background, not stubbornness or arrogance. You, however, are just stubborn.

    It is more typical for the undereducated individual to claim they are right when, in reality, they are wrong.

    As a mechanical engineer, I only know what I was taught in calculus, chemistry, physics, statics, dynamics, thermodynamics, and what I learned during the two years I spent studying electrical engineering prior to switching my major to mechanical engineering. I realize that six years of higher education does not make me an expert on the natural laws, but I’d postulate that it puts me a bit closer to that title than you.

    The first and second laws of thermodynamics are not something that man invented, they are natural laws that man has quantified over many hundreds of years. The laws of physics are well developed and well understood (by some). Many great minds have gone to great lengths to quantify and explain why nature behaves the way that it does. These are not theories, they are laws.

    Your assertions would seek to discredit the work of many great minds, such as Hooke, Newton, Bernoulli, Euler, Cavendish, Coulomb, Lagrange, Watt, Volta, Fourier, Young, Biot, Ampere, Avogadro, Gauss, Oersted, Brewster, Carnot (father of thermodynamics), Doppler, Hamilton, Stokes, Clausius, Kirchoff, Reynolds, Poynting, Hertx, Tesla, Planck, Wien, Zeeman, Millikan, Rutherford, Hess, Chadwick, Appleton, Pauli, Fermi, Mott, Bethe, Mayer, McMillan, Bardeen, Landau, Townes, Bohr (both of them), Boyle, Einstein, Hawking, and the rest, as this is not even close to a complete list.

    Each of the people made a contribution that has resulted in the wholeness of our understanding. Undoubtedly, there will be more discoveries. However, the holes that remain in our understanding do not, in anyway, have anything to do with why perpetual motion, or over-unity devices are impossible.

    This statement solidly proves your ignorance. The fact that thousands have contributed to our current level of understanding proves that your assertion is 100% incorrect. Each new generation questions the previous, each new generation makes an attempt to carry humanity a little further. Your comment is simply asinine. If people had not challenged what was known, we would still be living in the Stone Age.

    There are literally thousands of patents for “free energy” devices, but not a single one has ever made it to the market. Even worse, many of the developers of these devices have ended up facing charges of fraud when it was eventually discovered that their only intention was to scam foolish investors. Of course, people like you can only scream “conspiracy,” and people like you are the ones who keep these people in business.

    I’m not foolish enough to say that humanity will not one day poses the means to solve the problems currently associate with energy production, but I’m also not foolish enough to believe that a magnetic motor (one powered solely by permanent magnets), or some kind of over-unity device will ever be the answer. Such solutions will never be possible, ever. Period. The end. To argue that they are possible is to demonstrate your ignorance on the matter. You cannot get out more than you put in, and that is more than an unavoidable fact, it is an unavoidable law of nature.

    As for the Big Bang, since there is no way to rewind the video back that far, how the actual beginning took place can only be speculated using the information that is available. All of the energy and matter that will ever be was compacted into one dense space, and then there was a bang. Go figure.

    One thing is for certain, that was one heck of a bang. Nothing on this earth will ever compare to it, and even if we ever understood it there is no way that understanding could equate to a working magnetic motor.

    I tend to categorize people into two groups. My label for the first group is “the microwave heats from the inside out crowd.” Everyone else is in the second group. I see you as being in the first group. I used to call the first group the “vitamin D comes from sunlight crowd,” until I realized that people were actually taught this in school by ignorant teachers that did not realize that vitamin D is synthesized by the skin when exposed to ultraviolet light. This demonstrates the fallacy of not requiring public educators to meet a minimum IQ standard.

    Anyway, believe what you want to believe. In fact, I have the plans for a magnetic motor capable of procuring 10 kilowatts of power continuously. Just couple it to a generator and you’ll have free energy for life! Email me and I’ll tell you where to send the check.
     
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