Magen David Ambulance Dispatch: “Is it an Arab or a Jew?”

I understand it, but I don't agree with it, because from where I sit as an outisde observer, I don't see either side as being without blame.

Irrespective of first causes, from my point of view the israelies and palestinians are both prolonging the conflict.

Sure, I condem the invasion of the west bank or the Gaza Strip. I don't think that any of the human rights violations alleged against the ISraelies are justifiable under any circumstances.

But. I also don't think that brain washing children into hating the 'enemy', or doing things like blowing up school busses in market places is justified by it.

If you don't like it, think of it this way - as long as Hezbollah and Hamas continue to blow up school busses in crowded market places, the Israelies will continue to show the western world justification for attacking villages, killing children, and stopping ambulances.

 

I consider this question fallicous.

Do I think that Hitler stepped up the Holocaust, and turned up the Ovens in response to the fact that the Jews fought back?
No.
Do I think the Jews fighting back justifies the Holocaust? No.
Do I think that the Jews made perpetrating the holocaust easier, and made it easier for the rest of the world to turn a blind eye to what was happening because of the centuries of racism, and their stereotypical attitude to outsiders?
Yes.
Would I have survived in Nazi Germany while this was going on? No.

However, this is not directly related to the point, because I'm not arguing that a palestinian settler trying to defend his land and his family against the IDF justifies the IDF invasion.

 

I suppose you're right when you put it that way, it's really no different to my grandfathers attitude towards the Germans and the Japanese after his experiences in WWII.

As I believe I have said already.

I don't believe that either side is without blame for perpetuating the current situation. While I accept that it might have been Zionist racism, and Zionist agression that set the stage for the creation of Hamas and Hezbollah, I also believe that their continued activity is as detrimental to the peace process as the activities of the IDF, or Jewish settlers in the West bank.

I believe, that if EITHER Israel gifted some of the land taken by it's settlers in the west bank, gaza strip, or east jerusalem, to give a few examples, it would do wonders for the peace process. I also believe that Hamas and Hezbollah destroying some of their weapons as a show of good faith would be an equally important breakthrough (like the IRA destroying it's weapons).

The problem (or part of it, as I see it) is that neither side want's to make the first move, because they're both afraid they're going to get - for lack of a better way of putting it - face raped by the other while their back is turned. What, in my opinion is required, is for a third party to step in to step up, negotiate a degree of disarmement and land return that's acceptable to both parties, and have the testicular fortitude to actually police the agreement.

But, that requires a degree of enlightnement, that in my opinion is seemingly beyond most of the world at this time, because it requires the ability to be able to critiscize Israelie actions, and police them, without it neccessarily being labled anti jewish, or anti semitic (in the modern sense).

 

I always thought the assasination of Yitzhak Rabin was a 'crime', at the time I predicted (not that I can prove it) what has happened since then happeneing, and have often wondered what would have happened if he was still in power.

I understand all of that, and I take your point, but I may not have used the best words for mine (it's late, I'm tired, and it's approaching my bed time).

But, consider, for example, what Joel Singer, who negotiated the 1993 Oslo agreement had to say about the Arab Peace Initiative:
"Again, this emphasizes the fact that something must be done to stop terrorism. And I see the Arab summit resolution, the peace initiative, the major problem with it is that it only called upon Israel to do a series of things and there was no call upon the Palestinians to stop terrorism. That's the basic flaw of this summit resolution. "

The point being, that although I lack the patience at this point to go looking for specific examples to cite, at least some of the peace proposals that have been put forward have not met the criteria I stated, I'm also fairly confident I could name some Israeli led peace initiatives (without getting into judaeo-american relations, and naming the american led ones).

I keep telling ya, I'm not on either side.
They came close, but he was assasinated in 1995.

I suspect either side producing one at this stage would be a huge advantage.

 

Again, I don't doubt that pressure needs to be put on Israel, but I suspect an element of what a zionist would consider 'justifiable' hesitation, and perhaps futility.