Mace Windu v. Palpatine/Yoda v. Palpatine

Of course, if you need me to say that there are SPOILERS ABOUND throughout this discussion, then I shall say it: SPOILERS ABOUND!!!

Read no further unless you care to have two insanely awesome scenes from Revenge of the Sith utterly ruined for you.

Anyway:

In Ep 3, as all who have seen it know, Mace Windu and Palpatine, as well as Yoda and Palpatine, engage in combat with one another. The question is, who actually won the confrontations? Did Mace actually overpower Palpatine, as it seemed? Or was Palpatine's immense Dark Force powers that he demonstated all throughout the fight, as well as him being apparently fine immediatly after the fight, showing that he was playing opposum the entire way, having sensed Anakin would be there any moment? And what about the fight with Yoda? Did Yoda win? Or did Palpatine?

 

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I think Palpatine did lose to Mace. He wouldn't have wanted that scar he got. Although it was a good excuse to the Senate, Palpatine cares too much about himself to purposefully scar himself. And Mace IS very powerful. Almost as powerful as Yoda.

 

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No, Palpatine let Windu do that. He knew that if he outright killed Mace, he would have to kill Anakin as well. He forced Anakin to make an act of desperation which set him irrevocably down his dark path. If Palpatine had used his full power and struck down Mace when he first could have, Anakin would have shown up, seen Mace's body, and knew which was good and which was evil. Palpatine created the illusion that he was the victim, and used that to pull Anakin in over his head.
As for Yoda, he could have won the fight, as it came to his realization, only with the power of the Dark Side. This was unacceptable, because it would strengthen the Dark Side, thus empowering Anakin who was at that time fully within its grip. He had to loose in order to achieve victory at some other time.

 

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anyone read...I think it was "Cestus Deception"? Where Yoda and Dooku meet and Yoda turns dark for about a second? That would've been cool....
But I see your point. I guess it was all a setup. A really close one though. If Mace didn't sit there arguing with Anakin, he could've just pushed his lightsaber a few inches more....right into Palpatines throat.

 

Palpy knew it was to go like that. He forsaw everything, except his own death.

 

Which is because Palpatine was caught completely unaware. He would not understand why Vader would kill him, and therefore he had no reason to predict it. This was where Thrawn should have taken the lesson from that would have saved his life years later: those nearest you are those most dangerous.

 

Arquibus that doesnt work. The aprentice should be ALWAYS trying to kill the master, just as the master was trying to replace the aprentice with the strongest aprentice he can find

 

Xylus:

Yet he totally outshines Yoda, blasting his sabre out of hand with Force lightning, masterfully using force telekinesis...Moreover, the notion that he was actually scarred is up in the air. Many people assert that it was simply Sidious' true Darkside Face coming through, which makes sense considering the decrepification that Darkside users eventually face.

Arquibus:

Agreed.

In what way did Palpatine lose the fight against Yoda? By allowing him to eventually go free, a beaten, bruised, and incapable of defeating him green imp?

Xylus:

Considering Sidious' quick return to Force Lightning, I sorely doubt he could have done that.

Asguard:

Yes, though Palpatine had thought Vader, atleast momentarily, dealt with. He underestimated Vader's power. Though in the end, Palpatine didn't really die there anyway, so it was semi-moot.

 

huh?

he didnt?

 

Asguard:

He was able to ressurect himself in a clone body. The Cloned Emperor nearly regained his empire, even.

 

Indeed, he very nearly reclaimed most of his armies which is no easy feat when there was an imperial civil war going on and with many tie pilots turning pirate or defecting. Only other person who came near to that was Grand Admiral Thrawn.

 

Yes, and we know Thrawn's incredible power...but Asguard, while I do see your point, the fact is that as Prince James said, he underestimated Vader, and Palpatine was a bit arrogant anyway. I guess being the most powerful man in the Universe will do that to you, but even so...his overconfidence was his weakness.

 

I think the book you are referring to is "Dark Rendezvous", and Yoda goes to the darkside for about 2 seconds. If I remember right, Yoda does it to show Dooku, (his former student) the pull that the dark side has even on him, because Yoda knows how powerful he would be with it. Dark side Yoda makes Palpatine look like a padawan. He is that bad ass.

But I think Mace did actually jack up Palpatine. You got to remember, that Mace Windu is (was) probably the most powerful and efficient lightsaber fighter from the movies. (Read the book "Shatterpoint" if you disagree.) Yoda and Palpatine are more powerful masters of the force, and if Palpatine would of used his full force abilities, he would of defeated Mace. This is where Palpatine stalled and waited for Anakin. He could of finished him sooner by using his full force abilities, but in a pure lightsaber battle like the one they had, Mace had the upper hand.

Even after Mace, I think episode III Obi-Wan and Anakin might be better lightsaber fighters than Yoda and Palpatine. Mace, Anakin/Vader, and Maul are all definately Jedi guardians. Obi-Wan might be a guardian, but I could also see him as a sentinel, along with Dooku. Yoda and Palpatine are most likely Jedi consulars, along with Qui'Gon Jin. If you've played Knights of the Old Republic, you'll understand what that means.

 

Dru:

So you think that Palpatine would lose against Yoda if Yoda fell to the Dark Side to beat him?

 

No doubt. I think if Yoda fell to the dark side he would probably be one of the most powerful Sith Lords in the history of Star Wars.

This is the quote from the book:

"...Yoda's face was deeply hidden in the shadows, mottled black and blue, so that for one terrible instant he looked exactly like Darth Sidious. Or rather, it was Yoda as he might have been, or could yet become: a Yoda gone rotten, a Yoda whose awesome powers had been utterly unleashed by his connection to the dark side. In a flash Dooku saw how foolish he had been, trying to urge the old Master to the dark side. If Yoda ever turned that way, Sidious himself would be annihilated. The universe had yet to comprehend the kind of evil that a Jedi Knight of nearly nine hundred years could wield.

From the shadows, Yoda spoke. "Disappointment like I not, apprentice," he snarled in a wicked, wicked voice. "Give me my rose!"

Then he comes out of it a second later and says that he will not be pulled to the dark side today, but that he carries a "darkness within him."

 

Hell no. Palpatine was the most powerful dark side user since Exar Kun. There is no way a green midget like yoda could beat Palpatine.

 

I didn't realize that being a green midget gave one a disadvantage in using the force.....

 

It doesn't, it's jsut a derogatory remark towards the character Yoda.
Still, Yoda isn't as powerful in the force as palpatine. He's not even close.

 

Funny thing is that neither Palpatine of Yoda were even half as powerful as Vader and even half trained Luke proved impossible for Vader to kill. Scary thought there.

 

The original ending of Return of the Jedi had Luke killing Vader and turning to the Dark Side, and Leia becoming the next Jedi prodigy...but they changed it so that it wouldn't be so dark and ending.
I wish they had gone with the darker one.