Lyes, Lyes and more Lyes

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Godless, Nov 10, 2001.

  1. Godless Objectivist Mind Registered Senior Member

    What is really going on in Afganistan?

    Read about it here;

    How can this war be fair? you've got a problem when the US is just toying with this country, and we're not actually out to get the real perpetrators of 9-11
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  3. Benji Registered Senior Member

    Its lies lies and more lies mate

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  5. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

    <i>"you've got a problem when the US is just toying with this country, and we're not actually out to get the real perpetrators of 9-11"</i>

    Afghanistan...<b>home for terrorist camps and clandestine activities aimed at causing harm to the West?</b> Are we toying with them or just adjusting their attitude?
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  7. FlowerPower Registered Member


    The recipe for a good argument most surely includes respectable sources of information. Your link is crap.

    Let me guess- "It's TRUE! I saw it on the internet. Yuk Yuk I sure is smart!"

  8. Mr. G reality.sys Valued Senior Member

    Someone's giving us Atheists a bad name.

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  9. spankyface Registered Senior Member

    That's not news. It's opinion. A place called will put forth anything they can, harping off of current events for traffic.
  10. Godless Objectivist Mind Registered Senior Member

    Ok! OK!

    I know it sounds like a load of crap! however if you were to click on some of the arguments, you will see that what the people are doing in whatreallyhappened, is cliping out news articles from other newspapers which are reputable!, BTW I didn't state that everything there is factual, however it does make you think.

    What if?
  11. Markx Registered Senior Member

    I like to have a permession to post some articles here, I took them from a web site that has been shut down. It is very interesting and I bet very few of us have seen them. I rather send it to moderator and have him decide I don't want to be labled as anti american or less patriotic then any one else. So moderator please let me know what are my options.
    thank you in advance.
  12. KalvinB Publicity Whore Registered Senior Member

    Sure the source data is all true but it doesn't take much to realize how rediculous their arguments are based on that data.

    I can see that Elvis is fat but that doesn't mean he has some covert motive to put major food chains out of business so he can start his own chain.

  13. Godless Objectivist Mind Registered Senior Member

    Elvis is dead!, But perhaps you are right, the thing is not to jump to conclusions without having enough evidence. And the article is right, Bin Laden knows english, if it were true that he did it, why not come out and say it in english?

    OBL, was an informant for the CIA, trained while The former Soviet Union was at war with Afganistan, that's well known, and the saying goes, "once in the CIA, you are never out".

    However there's lots here in this ordeal that it smells fishy!
  14. Godless Objectivist Mind Registered Senior Member

  15. KalvinB Publicity Whore Registered Senior Member

    Why would bin laden use the language of the infidels? Why would he use english on a tape intended for his own people?

    Why am I even taking these rediculous claims on?

    Did I say Evis is alive?

  16. Benji Registered Senior Member

    Sounded pretty conclusive to me godless, i always have thought this war was about oil, as was the gulf war.
  17. Benji Registered Senior Member

    OBL wouldent confess in English unless perhaps there was a gun to his head, he most certanly wouldent deliver a speach (possibly his last) to his soilders in English.
  18. KalvinB Publicity Whore Registered Senior Member

    "Sounded pretty conclusive to me godless, i always have thought this war was about oil, as was the gulf war."

    There's a difference between being about something and being "only" about something.

    We're over there because we're taking out terrorists and a corrupt government. As an added bonus we will probably earn good relations with the oil people over there.

    Oil is not the primary goal which is what the article posted claimed which is rediculous.

    The Gulf war may have been about oil but it was also about Saddam Hussain.

    So no, it's not intelligent reporting by any stretch.

  19. Markx Registered Senior Member

    The original of this page used to be at
    But that page, and all other material on that site concerned with the WTC bombing,
    disappeared about October 21st without explanation.
    Consequently links in this page to that site, including links to all enlargements (except for Photo 6), no longer work.

    The Split Second Error The Blockbuster


    by Fintan Dunne,
    Research Kathy McMahon
    18 September 2001

    VIDEO Windows Mpeg
    14 mins @ 56K

    Aaron Swirski, one of the architects of the World Trade Center, talks exclusively to Jerusalem Post Radio on the World Trade Center collapse. He says they designed the towers to withstand something like a plane flying into the side.
    For interview, Media Player
    JpRadio item ...Now working.

    12th September, 2001

    Towers collapse "too methodical"


    Van Romero, vice president for research at New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology says the collapse of the twin towers resembled those of controlled implosions used in planned demolition.

    "My opinion is, based on the videotapes, that after the airplanes hit the World Trade Center there were some explosive devices inside the buildings that caused the towers to collapse," Romero said.

    A demolition expert, Romero is a former director of the Energetic Materials Research and Testing Center at Tech, which studies explosive materials and the effects of explosions on buildings, aircraft and other structures.

    He said he and Denny Peterson, vice president for administration and finance, were en route to an office building near the Pentagon to discuss defense-funded research programs at Tech. Romero told the Albequerque Journal that he based his opinion on video aired on national television broadcasts.

    The detonations could have been caused by a small amount of explosive put in more than two points in each of the towers, he said. "It could have been a relatively small amount of explosives placed in strategic points," Romero said.


    DETROIT, Sept. 11 (UPI) -- Lee Robertson, the project's structural engineer, addressed the problem of terrorism on high-rises at a conference in Frankfurt, Germany, LAST WEEK (!!!), Chicago engineer Joseph Burns told the Chicago Tribune. Burns said Robertson told the conference, "I designed it for a (Boeing)707 to hit it."

    DETROIT, Sept. 11 (UPI) -- A lead engineer who worked on New York's World Trade Center Towers expressed shock Tuesday that the 110-story lanmarks in Lower Manhattan collapsed after each tower was struck by a hijacked passenger jetliner.
    The determined man at the controls of Flight 175 was now less than one minute from his own demise, and was in that state of heightened alertness that only approaching death can generate.

    Ahead, as he hurtled across New York towards Manhattan Island, he could see the vast plume of smoke (1). His colleague in Flight 11, approaching from the opposite direction had already made an almost perfect impact on the North Tower of the World Trade Center.

    On the far side of the tower, concealed from his view, was the gash (2) where the hijacked airliner had spread its fuel payload over several floors of the building. Just as the trainers had coached.

    But the sight still managed to unnerve him. It was one thing practicing the approach for countless hours on a computer simulator, but this was real life -and no mistake could be made. The planners had insisted that the planes must strike the towers at a banked angle. Otherwise the fire would be confined to only a couple of floors and would not set the building comprehensively alight. Without perfect execution, the imperialists would only suffer minor casualties, he had been told.

    What they never told him was that the aircraft impacts were only one half of the plan. One visible and psychologically terrorizing aspect would be provided by the suicidal aircraft. But the other half of the plan was unknown to the two pilots and their accomplices. Bombs had already been planted inside both towers.

    They would be detonated after the planes had struck, to ensure the total destruction of the buildings and their evidentiary contents. The bombs inside the towers were strapped to radio-trigger detonators. Other plotters would be near the scene -monitoring TV coverage to determine the right moment to push the final buttons. The full PsyOps (psychological-warfare) effect would be the complete disappearance of these two symbols of US confidence and power.

    But if the plane struck at the wrong angle, or even worse -missed altogether, the whole scheme was in danger. Substantial fires were necessary as a cover for the subsequent collapse.

    The planners had taken every precaution. Their flight approach paths were calculated to align the two towers as a single target -without a gap between them. His orders were clear. His target was the South Tower, but if the first plane struck the wrong tower, he was to switch to the other. In either event, he must strike at the remaining target with a military precision.

    But he didn't. And that's where things began to go wrong.


    A straightforward level approach would have been so much easier. Just line up the towers in the cockpit window and plow straight in. This banked approach was much harder to accomplish. Imagine swinging a stone on the end of a string, aiming to strike a standing beer bottle. Imagine getting only one try. A fully laden 767 is like an elephant with wings -the apotheosis of maneuverability.

    Now, the pilot was now less than two miles from his target. The screaming noise of the engines on high power were already causing heads to turn among the early morning crowds below. But they didn't really understand what was happening. One eyewitness would later recount that the first plane had tried to to veer off the tower, but hit it nevertheless. That witness had mistaken the intent of the final course correction.

    For no matter how well executed the approach, it would be necessary to make one last seconds adjustment to get right on target. In the final five seconds, the tower would still be half a mile away. That's when the collective million hours of preparation would telescope into seconds and determine the success or failure of the mission.

    Photo 3

    Photo 4

    Photo 5

    Photo 6
    And it wasn't going well. As the tower rushed to fill the view in the cockpit window (3), the pilot realized that he was going too fast and wide of the target to boot. He would miss to the right. Instead of a minor tilt of the controls, he would have to lean the aircraft hard left -NOW! (4)

    As the airliner tilted acutely to the left (5), the air under the wings began to leak away -depriving the craft of vital lift, even as the extra centrifugal force generated by the turn meant that he needed more lift -not less. The maneuver was only partly successful. Despite the course correction, the plane still drifted to the right.

    In that last instant (6), he never really had time to consider his own death. The training and his death-moment concentration focussed him so intently on the task. With a grinding crash the side of the building gave way, as Flight 175 struck near the corner of the tower -too far to the right (7).

    The howl of metal and concrete impacting each other was overlaid with the crack of plate glass shattering. The concrete floors of the building cut through the plane like a egg passed through an egg slicer. The metal in its wings offered little resistance. In an instant, the plane had disappeared into the tower like a bird returning to its nest.

    But it was no longer an aircraft. It's separated parts careered across the floors of the South Tower. It was no longer obeying the laws of aerodynamics. It was subject to the dictates of the angular momentum caused by the banked approach -and that last moment course correction.

    That's when things began to go even more wrong for the cynical perpetrators of the mass death that was now being inflicted on those in the shattered airliner's path.

    Photo 8

    Photo 9


    Earlier, the North Tower impact site had been right in the center of the tower (2). The entire fuel load and flotsam was dumped deep inside and remained in the building -where it exploded (8)(fig 1 below).

    But now as Flight 175 disappeared inside the South Tower, it burst like a paper bag full of water. The thousands of pounds of jet fuel were liberated to follow a path dictated by the momentum of what had once been an aircraft.

    A wash of jet fuel and airplane parts tore through the interior of the building at hundreds of miles an hour; sweeping everything before it and just starting to ignite as it rushed along. But it didn't take the same course as had aircraft debris inside the North Tower, eighteen minutes before. By contrast, the majority of the fuel and debris from the second plane smashed out of the building and exploded OUTSIDE in the open air over the street (9)(fig 2 below).

    The plane's approach was an arc of a great circle -one that had tightened even further with that final twitch on the controls. Imagine again a paper bag of water spun on the end of a string. If the paper bag bursts, the water inside will head off at a tangent to the original arc.

    FIGURE 1

    FIGURE 2

    In the same fashion, the fuel now tried to take a course to the right of the original flight path. The aircraft had impacted near the corner of the building. Within fractions of a second the already igniting fuel had raced diagonally across the corner to burst out into the open air again, on the adjacent side of the Second Tower. Photos even show a smoking engine which shot out as it had not even been slowed by the building interior (10).

    This air explosion provided a stunning pyrotechnic spectacle witnessed by countless millions, but it was an operational disaster. For it left the thorny question of explaining how the South Tower -which took less than half the fuel load of its North Tower twin -was the first of the two to collapse.(See Fig 1&2)


    Even before the second plane hit the South Tower, its northern counterpart was already burning strongly, with a great plume of dense black toxic fumes drifting over a stunned Manhattan. Flight 11 had rocketed deep inside the building before the fuel ignited. On some floors the fire burned across the entire width of the building. By 9:45 a.m. the North Tower was ablaze not just on the floors that took the impact, but all the way to the top of the building (10).

    The towers sprinkler fire extinguisher system were bolstered by automatic hermetrically sealing doors on every floor to prevent the spread of fire. But office workers still found themselves stumbling down sometimes darkened and smoke-filled fire escape stairs.

    The giant steel beams used to build the towers had been cast in Japan -no American steel milll could roll out the massive 'I' beams. The explanation accepted by the mainstream media pundits for the collapse of both towers is that these beams softened like warm toffee in the intensity of the fires.

    If that were the case, then the North Tower was the obvious candidate to be the first to collapse. Not only did it have almost a twenty minute head start on the South Tower conflagration, but the fire extended to the whole area of many floors. The South Tower fire was smaller and more confined, so that by 10:30 a.m. there was an obvious difference visible to those in the streets below and the hypnotized TV cameras now trained on the incredible sight.

    But can the collapse in any event be really blamed on the fires within? The great explosions on impact had consumed all the jet fuel in seconds. Now it was plastic fixtures, cabling and internal partitioning that were burning. Or smoldering, to be more precise. Only near the great gaping holes -where there was access to an air supply- did the fire burn with anything like the intensity required to melt great beams of steel.

    Neither had the impacts significantly weakened the structural integrity of the buildings. Even under normal circumstances these flexible buildings swayed so much in high winds that seasickness was a noticeable problem among workers on upper floors. Even on floors near the impact sites, many had felt only a mild shudder as the aircraft struck.

    For the fire to be the cause of the collapse, most of the array of steel beams that spanned each floor would have to be engulfed in continuous extremely high temperature fire. This did not happen, nor was it essential to the plan. If the real intent had been to collapse the towers by means of fire then the planes would have struck the corners of the towers nearest to each other. That would have increased the chances of one tower collapsing into the other.

    What actually happened next -before either tower collapsed, was one or more massive explosions in the other buildings around the towers. Explosions that sent clouds of masonry dust into the air. The first of many blasts that would rock the World Trade Center complex.

    The explosions marked the final phase.
    The curtain was coming down on the performance.

    And the towers themselves would be next to fall.....


    Copyright reserved 2001 by
    Fintan Dunne, Kathy McMahon and
    Reproduce freely on noncommercial / alternative media.
  20. Markx Registered Senior Member

    The original of this page used to be at
    But that page, and all other material on that site concerned with the WTC bombing,
    disappeared about October 21st without explanation.
    Consequently links in this page to that site, including links to all enlargements
    (except for the images of the firemen raising the U.S. flag
    and of Seven WTC possibly being blasted) no longer work.

    The Split Second Error The Blockbuster

    TEXT Version HERE
    PDF Version HERE

    Thermal imaging of World Trade Center ruins gives the game away.

    See that ruin with a hole at center-left.
    That's was the U.S. Customs building
    (Six WTC), and its mostly still standing.

    See the gap in the buildings to its left.
    That was Larry Silverstein's Seven WTC
    -now completely ruined.

    Take a look to the right of the building with the hole. That pile of rubble was once the North Tower (One WTC).

    You can see the tower fell straight down and damaged -but did not flatten-- number Six WTC to its left (the building with the hole).

    So how come Seven WTC (extreme left above) is totally flattened? The North tower would have had to collapse ACROSS Six WTC to its left to have demolished Seven.

    But, as you see, Six WTC is damaged,
    however large portions are still standing.
    To the left is smoke emerging from
    the totally flattened Seven WTC??

    In close-up you see the
    steel debris from the
    North Tower(One WTC),
    lying to the right of Six WTC

    Six WTC is standing at top right.
    Seven WTC flattened at center left.

    Aerial view of the whole area.

    An explosion at ground level

    Is Seven WTC being blasted?

    Another shot of an explosion
    in the area of Seven WTC
    -this time from CNN.

    Click above to view
    animation of CNN
    broadcast frames
    1.6 MB GIF
    4 mins @56K

    The animation shows the velocity of the plume is clearly too fast for it to be merly a swirl of dust from the collapse of one of the towers. The towers are still standing. The direction of the plume movement is upwards and outwards from the area of building Seven.

    All this is consistent with an explosion in Seven WTC. One which flattened it completely.



    The World Trade Center is a gold mine. And Larry Silverstein knows it.

    Silverstein already owned number Seven WTC, but he led a consortium that just months ago signed a new $3.2 billion US, 99-year lease on the WTC complex. That was the first time the WTC had changed hands in its thirty year history.

    The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey signed the deal with the Silverstein-led Westfield America on the 26th April, 2001. Westfield America leased the concourse mall, and Silverstein the office portion.

    The deal was finalized and celebrated on the 23rd July -just seven weeks before almost the entire complex was destroyed. Port Authority officers gave a giant set of keys to the complex to Silverstein and to Westfield CEO Lowy.

    Silverstein was ecstatic at that time. "This is a dream come true," he had said. "We will be in control of a prized asset, and we will seek to develop its potential, raising it to new heights." An ironic choice of words, in retrospect.

    The leased buildings included Numbers One and Two (the Twin Towers), Four, Five and 400,000 square feet of retail space. The Marriott Hotel (3WTC), U.S. Customs building (6WTC) and Silverstein's own 47-story office building were already under lease.

    Despite the transfer to private hands, the tax payments would still come from the Port Authority -who had been making yearly $25 million payments in lieu of taxes to New York City. The proper figure should be more like $100 million according to city administrators.

    Silversteen is undeterred by the demolition of the complex. He already has somewhat insensitive plans to rebuild. Four towers this time. Although the complex was not insured against an act of war, new policies insured against terrorist damage.

    Which leaves everybody financially consoled, even if not emotionally so. The vendors still have the $3.2 billion they made on the sale. The purchasers lease deal had spanking new insurance --with new beneficiaries-- for capital value and loss of income.

    Silverstein has insurance money to rebuild and get the $110 million of annual rental income flowing again. Or double that with his planned four towers. Nice money if you can get it. Can he?

    Not if the insurers could help it. They are the big losers. And they detest having to pay a claim on a policy taken out only weeks before. Indeed, they often delay payment to investigate cases where immediate claims are made against brand new policies.

    Graphics and maps of buildings in the complex. Click to enlarge.



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    mailout list. WE GUARANTEE
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    Copyright reserved 2001
    by Fintan Dunne & Kathy McMahon
    Reproduce freely on noncommercial / alternative media.


    by Fintan Dunne,
    Research Kathy McMahon
    4th October 2001

    What you will discover here will shatter any illusions you have about the reasons behind the World Trade Center attack. This 'Wag the WTC' blockbuster is making a pile of money for some.

    FACT: The contractor whose people were the first on the WTC collapse scene --to cart away the rubble that remains-- is the same contractor who demolished and hauled away the shell of the bombed Oklahoma City Murrah building. The name of the contractor is Controlled Demolition! Their WTC cleanup contract is worth over $7 Billion. Are you getting the picture?

    FACT: The expert widely reported as certain the WTC was demolished --who later changed his mind-- is a demolition explosives specialist from New Mexico Tech Institute. That's precisely where the people first on the Pentagon crash scene were trained. Tech was also a hot tip to get the contract for training the new Federal Air Marshals. Are you getting the picture?

    FACT: Most of the World Trade Center changed hands in a $3.2 billion, 99-year lease deal that was concluded only seven weeks before the attack; with a sweetheart tax deal and new insurance covering buildings and rents -payable to new beneficiaries. Are you getting the picture?


    Let's all hold on to our emotional hats. Let's stop reacting and stop overreacting.

    We are MEANT to react in shock. The whole purpose of the audacious World Trade Center attack was to psych us out.

    Does the WTC attack feel like a movie? It does? Well of course it does! It has been specifically written as a movie script. Are you getting the picture?

    Having studied for years how Americans react in movie theaters, the game planners have decided we are now ready for movie spectaculars in real life.

    You are witnessing a cathartic and intense psychological operation. It is designed to alter your perceptions and hence your politics. It's a classic PsyOp. Its a made-for-TV movie with all the cliché blockbuster elements.

    It has mayhem, evil warlords and subtle hints of a military coup. It has terrorists who wrestle for control of Flight 93 with Die Hard have-a-go Bruce Willis clones.

    It has final deranged exhortations from a terrorist leader. His last letter is found bundled with a "You Too Can Fly a Plane!" instruction manual and some autographed photos of the great enemy --the legendary Osama Bin Gadaffi Bin Saddam-Laden.

    It has whispered good-byes: the departure of the American sailors for war, was portrayed in 'Titanic' style on network TV and in print media coverage.

    It has poignant last moments: the raising of the flag on the pile of WTC rubble is a director's steal of the classic Iwo Jima flag scene from W.W.II. They have turned the scenes of this devastation in New York into a movie lot to construct a cultural iconography of war.

    This entire sequence of: hijack; first plane; second plane; Pentagon ;WTC collapse; phone calls from the planes; copy of the Koran; more attempted hijackings; arrests; plucky passengers; etc., etc., has been scripted by a crew of cynical planners who could care less that REAL people died in the Twin Towers --not political extras on the international stage of military-industrial machinations.

    The story even has the ultimate terror of imminent death in the 'reported' (but unheard by you or I) last words of an airline stewardess. "My God, my God, I see buildings....water!"

    Well hold my emotional hat, but I don't see buildings or water. I see a barrage of flimsy plot-bolstering fabrications.

    So does award-winning British journalist Robert Fisk -if you read between the lines of his doubts about the authenticity of Mohammed Atta's last letter. In the London Independent, 29 Sept 2001 he questions the "weird references in the note," as he wonders if there is "something more mysterious" going on.

    Indeed. Down at the bottom of the Bargain Bin, in the pulp fiction section of the local charity shop, I can find dime-a-dozen trashy novels with plenty of "My God, My God..." dialogue.

    But the REAL world of actual airline stewardess, has people are not cartoon dumb blondes. They KNOW what New York looks like from the air, and Duluth and Vancouver too. Duh!

    But in this "WAG THE WTC II" movie script, nobody knows they are flying over a city for the last ten minutes. And nobody knows what New York looks like. And the stewardess can't tell when an aircraft is descending, so is totally surprised to see buildings and water. Totally.

    She might have said something credible like: "Jesus Christ! We're gonna hit Manhattan."

    But no. "I see buildings...." (...and, wait for it...) ..pause.. "...water." Check out that pregnant pause is in every publication of the quote. Does that pause feel right to you? Not to me. The whole thing feels like a ham-fisted effort designed to make us believe certain things.

    So let's us also pause, now. Let's jam our emotional hats down firmly and take a look at the MONEY. Let's take a good HARD look at the money. Let's follow the MONEY. Because, there is a mountain of blood-soaked money riding on all this.


    No, not Van Morrisson the singer. But, Van 'the man' Romero. The man in the right place, at the right time.

    Van Romero is vice president for research at New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology (NMTech). The Socorro university has levered itself into one of the elite sites in the world for the study of explosives and terrorism, attracting nearly $10 million a year in federal money for programs that test explosives for US and foreign agencies. On the morning of the attacks, Romero and Tech's finance vice president Denny Peterson, were near the Pentagon.

    They had come to Washington to discuss defense-funded research programs at Tech, leaving them very conveniently located to grab NMTech's slice of the imminent cleanup operation. Because New Mexico Tech offers counter-terrorism training of police and fire first responders to terrorism attacks in the United States!

    Within hours Romero was telling the Albuquerque Journal that the collapse of the twin towers could have been caused by a small amount of explosive put in more than two points in each of the towers.

    "My opinion is, based on the videotapes, that after the airplanes hit the World Trade Center there were some explosive devices inside the buildings that caused the towers to collapse," Romero said.

    And Romero should know. After all Van is a demolition expert and a former director of the Energetic Materials Research and Testing Center at Tech, which studies the effects of explosions on buildings.

    Nevertheless, ten days later Romero had changed his mind. Not only that, but the Albuquerque Journal changed their story too. They altered the original web page about Romero's views. It now shows his revised views first. Check it here.


    New Mexico Tech's success is due in no small part to the advocacy of local Republican representative Joe Skeen, who has lobbied relentlessly on Tech's behalf to lucrative effect.

    Skeen has contacted Israeli representatives about the prospect of having a detachment of fighter aircraft stationed in New Mexico. Israel's request is under review by the U.S. Department of Defense.

    Meanwhile, Tech's terrorism first responder training is under the auspices of the public /private National Domestic Preparedness Consortium (i.e. military-industrial complex).

    You can find Tech-trained first responders right now at the Pentagon scene. They are busy cleaning-up, in every sense of the word. Skeen has 'hung out with the guys' back at their training camp in the NMTech counter-terrorism facility. So naturally he soon followed Romero to Washington, where he called by the Pentagon crash scene to encourage the NMTech crew.

    Skeen asked if there was anything he could do to make their task easier and the crew responded by asking if there was any green chili in the D.C. area. Skeen said yes and had New Mexico green chili stew delivered to the hotel where the crew is staying.

    "These are the people who have the toughest duty in cleaning up the devastation left by the barbaric acts of terrorists last week," Skeen said. "We owe the people involved in the clean up... a great deal of thanks and gratitude." Indeed. We owe them a great deal of money also.

    Tech will gain substantially from domestic counter-terrorism if Joe Skeen has his way. He wrote to President George Bush and relevant federal government agency officials thus: "Guarding against terrorist attacks must be the centerpiece of our plan and New Mexico, particularly New Mexico Tech University, has excellent technical resources in counter-terrorism."

    Skeen proposed that the university triple within 60 days its domestic preparedness first responder training. Skeen said New Mexico Tech is prepared to initiate training for Sky Marshals at Roswell Airpark which has a variety of commercial jet liners ranging from 737 to 747 for hands-on training purposes.

    "Dr. Dan Lopez, the President of New Mexico Tech has assured me, that all of these resources and any others identified by the government can be made available immediately to our government and I will do all in my power to help you and our country in managing this crisis,'' Skeen noted in his letter to the president.

    Are you getting the picture?


    Cleaning up the estimated 1.2 million tons of rubble left by the destruction of the World Trade Center could take up to a year and cost $7 billion, according to Associated Press, 28th September, 2001.

    "The New York cleanup will be a gargantuan undertaking, whose scale and magnitude will go beyond the customary types of disasters," said J. Mark Loizeaux, president of Maryland-based Controlled Demolition, who brought down the remains of the Alfred Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City in 1995.

    Controlled Demolition Group, specializes in building demolition worldwide. They are one of a handful with the expertise to demolish a structure like the World Trade Center.

    "We probably have more experience than anyone on the planet about how to handle this type of debris, and I will tell you right now we don't have all the answers," said Loizeaux. "It is going to be a learning curve for all of those involved, and it is going to take a very long time."

    Given the public's suspicions about the World Trade Center collapse, the presence of Controlled Demolition at the site will hardly assuage their concern. Quite the reverse.
    A company with vast demolition smarts has handled the cleanup of the two greatest terror bombings in the US to date.

    In the case of Oklahoma building, Controlled Demolition carted off the remains and buried them in a hole in the desert before the smoke had stopped rising from the ruins. Then the rubble was covered over, surrounded by a security fence and guarded.

    That was an investigative fiasco -given that there is no way an ammonium nitrate-fuel oil ('ANFO') bomb could have blown away a third of the structure. Furthermore, according to retired blast expert General Ben Partin, the blast velocity of ANFO bombs is incapable of the specific damage observed in the Murrah Building. Military explosive ten times more powerful would be needed to rip concrete away and leave steel reinforcing rods exposed.

    A report written by an investigative committee was released earlier this year by the Oklahoma Bombing Investigation Committee. Leading member Charles Key, a former Oklahoma state representative, said the report contains volumes of evidence citing inconsistencies and omissions in the government's official version of events.

    "There is sufficient evidence to confirm that law enforcement agencies in Oklahoma City, as well as Washington, DC, had sufficient prior knowledge of the impending disaster, yet took minimum measures to avert the bombing," the report said. "Documents and witnesses support this conclusion."

    The committee's report also documents "at least four sightings of [additional] bombs inside the [Murrah] building," said Key.


    As evidence has mounted, our concerns about the events at the WTC have grown. Yet, at this time there is no credible investigation by any official U. S. agency of the possibility of additional bombs in the World Trade Center. Neither has there been a call by any leading U. S. politician for an official inquiry into these events.

    President Kennedy's death in Dallas at least spawned the Warren Commission investigation. But, so far the only examination of the WTC incidents is taking place on alternative web sites such as this.

    Sorry all I cannot download the pictures they were pictures of lots of people and infrastructure and the logic behind all the analysis. If some one know how to upload those pics I can e mail these artiles to them.
    Thank you
  21. Benji Registered Senior Member

    Why did you paste it all twice?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

  22. Benji Registered Senior Member

    Indeed its not just about oil, its about money and having control where you shouldent have.

    That will be why there is rioting in Islamabad and theres growing concerns over the people of saudi arabia oppinion towards the war.

    True its not just about oil, its about money power and all the troubles that come with them.

    As this war is about Ossma Bin Ladden who lives in a cave and eats bread and cheese and orders attacks on countrys 10,000 miles away.

    There are too many inconsitencys about this whole thing, too many concidences, everything fell into place like a jigsaw.
    America wants afganistan, and all of a sudden an afgan based terrorist attacks america (coincidence).
    Irony of it is America was selling guns and bombs to him just a decade ago.
  23. KalvinB Publicity Whore Registered Senior Member

    "America wants afganistan, and all of a sudden an afgan based terrorist attacks america (coincidence). Irony of it is America was selling guns and bombs to him just a decade ago."

    So 15 years is "all of a sudden?"

    You define irony as an former allie biting your hand? How about this theory; Afganistan has been run by assholes for a very long time but we've let them slide. They don't bug us we don't bug them. Unfortunatly they decided to bug us and now we're going to kick their fucking asses and take their oil to boot which we were kind enough to let them keep 15 years ago.

    I have no problem with this. They returned evil for good and they're getting what they deserve.


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