Lucretius Owns Organic Chemists

Discussion in 'Chemistry' started by OilIsMastery, Aug 3, 2008.

  1. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    Titan also has an average surface temperature of nearly -200°C and a source of Ultra Violet light.
     
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  3. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    Vitalism is only bizzare in the context of modern science.
    But.
    They made an observation.
    They forwarded a hypothesis.
    They discarded the hypothesis when it was contradicted by evidence.

    Sounds like the scientific method to me.

    Biogenic theory might seem bizzare to you, but I would question whether you understand it fully.

    I can't decide whether this is a Strawman fallacy, or a false flag fallacy.

    What makes it worse is the statement, as quoted, lacks context and several key qualifiers.
     
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  5. OilIsMastery Banned Banned

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    Unfortunately for the scientific method, vitalism, organic chemistry, and biogenic petroleum origin have NOT been discarded.

    And I question whether anyone on earth understands it at all.

    "I have gone to the best geologists and the best petroleum researchers and I can give you the authoritative answer, noone knows." -- Edward Teller, on how living matter is converted into petroleum, 1979
     
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  7. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    Strawman.

    Vitalism has been discarded (making the statement a falsehood), and Organic chemistry is a branch of chemistry, not a theory of chemistry, so has no need to be discarded.


    So you're quoting a 1979 source - without providing context or linking to the original material, to refute a peer reviewed 1993 paper that discusses that exact topic?

    Here's a hint. Petroleum Geologists and Organic Chemists are not the same thing.
     
  8. OilIsMastery Banned Banned

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    Vitalism has NOT been discarded. But if you think it should be then you are on the correct side of the argument.

    Organic chemistry is based upon vitalism.
     
  9. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    Vitalism, as a scientific theory, and as a theory of chemistry, has been discarded.

    Key points include the synthesis of:

    Urea, Quinine, Perkins Mauve, DDT, Aspirin, Arsphenamine, Glucose, Turpineol, and Camphor.

    The closest thing to Vitalism in modern science is Biochemistry (that's not to say that I'm ruling it out as a philosophical leaning, but it's not one that's taught at all).


    No, Organic chemistry is not based on Vitalism, Organic chemistry is the study of all carbon based compounds, including Carbon tetrachloride, Diamond, Graphite, and carbon dioxide.

    The closest thing to vitalism that exists is biochemistry, which is also not based in vitalism.

    Your post is another strawman argument, actually, it's probably more of a false flag argument. By your logic, all chemists are alchemists, all scientests are heretics, and all astronomers are astrologers.
     
  10. OilIsMastery Banned Banned

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    Look we are in agreement here. So why do chemists think carbon is organic?

    Why is carbon organic?
     
  11. Vkothii Banned Banned

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    Carbon, the element, is not organic, and it's not inorganic; it's an element.

    Carbon, as you bloody well know, you're just being crappily obtuse, forms bonds, especially with the lightest element Hydrogen. Then you get all kinds of long-chain molecules, ring structures and so on.
    That, in general is hydrocarbon chemistry. There's another name for hydrocarbon chemistry, isn't there you schmuck?
     
  12. OilIsMastery Banned Banned

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    So why do chemists think carbon is organic?
     
  13. Vkothii Banned Banned

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    They don't think that.
    You think they think that, for some unfathomable reason.
     
  14. OilIsMastery Banned Banned

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    Why is carbon chemistry called organic chemistry?
     
  15. Vkothii Banned Banned

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    Because it is.
    I would surmise that some carbon chemistry is called "inorganic carbon chemistry", since there are carbon allotropes and compounds that don't have Hydrogen in them.
     
  16. OilIsMastery Banned Banned

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    How very scientific.

    LOL.
     
  17. AlphaNumeric Fully ionized Moderator

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    Calcium carbonate. Sodium carbonate. Graphite. Diamond.

    There's more

    6 seconds with Google. You couldn't even manage that.
     
  18. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    And here we go again, grab hold of that strawman, and lead him down the garden parth.

    Once again, nobody considers all carbon to be of biological origin, Organic chemistry is simply the name that has been retained to deal solely with the rather diverse chemistry of Carbon.
     
  19. OilIsMastery Banned Banned

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    So why is carbon chemistry called organic?

    Why has it been retained if carbon isn't organic?
     
  20. pjdude1219 screw watergate i want to know about zaragate Valued Senior Member

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    They don't dip shit. Get your head out of the orafice you think with and wrap your head around the fact that it may i don't know have something to do with all life we know off is carbon based.
     
  21. OilIsMastery Banned Banned

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    So if chemists don't think carbon is organic, then why is carbon chemistry called organic chemistry?
     
  22. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    oilmastery, show me one long chain fatty acid created OUTSIDE the body, show me one molocule of ATP created without a mitocondria
     
  23. OilIsMastery Banned Banned

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    Off topic. Show me one fossil that's been magically and miraculously transformed into hydrocarbons.

    "It is possible to convert methane into a complex mixture of higher alkanes and alkenes at high pressures and temperatures but not carbohydrates, the fundamental building blocks of plants." -- Geoffrey P. Glasby, 2006
     

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