Long term space travel and the human brain..

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Tricky? No, it will destroy humans brains and cause death because without a brain humans cannot control a spaceship or do much of anything. So no long distance space travel unless there is shielding to protect humans.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Is Mars safe from cosmic rays?

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

No, it gets a ton of them daily.

Planning a trip to Mars? Take plenty of shielding. According to sensors on NASA's ACE (Advanced Composition Explorer) spacecraft, galactic cosmic rays have just hit a Space Age high.
"In 2009, cosmic ray intensities have increased 19% beyond anything we've seen in the past 50 years," says Richard Mewaldt of Caltech. "The increase is significant, and it could mean we need to re-think how much radiation shielding astronauts take with them on deep-space missions."
The cause of the surge is solar minimum, a deep lull in solar activity that began around 2007 and continues today. Researchers have long known that cosmic rays go up when solar activity goes down. Right now solar activity is as weak as it has been in modern times, setting the stage for what Mewaldt calls "a perfect storm of cosmic rays."
"We're experiencing the deepest solar minimum in nearly a century," says Dean Pesnell of the Goddard Space Flight Center, "so it is no surprise that cosmic rays are at record levels for the Space Age."


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...zIHYDA&usg=AFQjCNEJXY4cTxMl63DKJOgVcBQ4hMc_AA

 

The dangers from cosmic rays has been known since the space age commenced.
I remember one of the things our conspiracy Moon landing nuts were telling us was that it was impossible because the Apollo Astronauts needed to go through the Van-Allen radiation belts.
Yep, it will be tricky...yep it will be dangerous...and yes the difficulties, as with other difficulties in these extreme ventures, will be overcome in time and with further research.
One of the sciences in my opinion that will be instrumental in getting us to Mars is Nanotechnology.

 

How is nanotech going to solve cosmic radiation? They need shielding that can stop cosmic rays and as yet no one has developed anything for them.

 

It will not be solved by Earth humans.

 

It will not /can not. Not even of any use for shielding against the very much weaker radiation trapped in the Van-Allen belts. The metal skin of a space craft can shield against that; however if a primary comic ray hits the skin of a space craft, the "shower radiation" entering the space craft from a single "cosmic ray" which is actually not a ray but a very energetic particle nucleus, will be thousands of high energy "daughter nuclei" - a serious problem for the astronaut they happen to pass into, but probably not a lethal one.

The interesting question, I would like NASA to discuss, is how sick would the travelers to Mars get?

 

Nanotechnology could well discover some material for shielding by manipulation.

 

I don't believe that for one minute.
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/579158main_radiation shielding systems.pdf

How can you say it will not and it can not?
We may as well give up all efforts in space travel beyond the Moon right now.
Like I said difficult, dangerous to human life, but we are an inovative species.

 

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/research/technology-onepagers/protective_shields.html

Ames Technology Capabilities and Facilities

Text Size



Thermal, Radiation and Impact Protective Shields (TRIPS)


Nanotechnology is providing new concepts for multipurpose shields against the triple threats of Aeroheating during atmospheric entry, Radiation (Solar and Galactic Cosmic Rays) and Micrometeoroid/Orbital Debris (MMOD) strikes.

Benefit
The TRIPS concept has direct relevance to the Crew Exploration Vehicle (CEV) planned in the Exploration vision. TRIPS can be upgraded for increasingly more severe aerothermal entry environments.

Research Overview
For vehicles that are required to perform an atmospheric entry (Figs 1, 2), the vehicle is covered with an outer thermal protection system (TPS) which protects the vehicle from the intense heating environment. The TPS can also represent the first line of defense from the space radiation environment, if the materials making up the TPS are chosen wisely. Materials made from low atomic weight elements, such as hydrogen and carbon, are generally regarded as good candidates for radiation shielding, since less secondary radiation is produced during the collision process with high-speed cosmic rays and solar event particles.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

​

Figure 1. Apollo-style CEV and TRIPS cross-sectional diagram.
Polyethylene is one such material used in radiation shield designs. While polyethylene is not used in thermal protection systems, carbonaceous ablators like carbon phenolic and PICA (phenolic impregnated carbonaceous ablator), which have already flown on the Galileo and Stardust missions respectively, should have good radiation-shielding characteristics since they are comprised mostly of carbon and hydrogen. Other TPS materials, such as the ceramic tiles and blankets on the Space Shuttle, silicon based ablators, and metallic systems, are likely to have a reduced radiation shielding capability, based on the low atomic weight rule-of-thumb.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

​

Figure 2. Nanotechnology infusion enables TRIPS
The development process starts with an evaluation of candidate thermal protection system materials (both existing and those under development) for their radiation shielding effectiveness. This evaluation will be both computational-- using radiation transport codes-- and experimental, using accelerators like the NASA Space Radiation Laboratory (NSRL) at Brookhaven. This will enable designers of vehicles such as the proposed crew exploration vehicle (CEV) or the manned Mars entry vehicle to make informed, multifunctional TPS materials choices. In addition to addressing aeroheating and radiation, we also plan to use the high strength and impact resistance of carbon nanotube composites to develop protective materials with a third element of multi-functionality-- MMOD impact protection-- using Whipple-shield approaches of the kind shown in cross section in Figure 1.

The concept of one protective shield for the triple threat is called TRIPS, ( T hermal, R adiation, I mpact P rotection S hield). We feel Ames is uniquely positioned within NASA to develop this concept because of our 40 + year history in conducting arc-jet testing and qualifying TPS materials, in conjunction with our strong expertise in nanotechnology.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

​

Figure 3. Mars Human Aerocapture Vehicle whose nose cap is a CEV. Aerocapture vehicle length is 28 meters.
Our plans for TRIPS development include MMOD impact testing of TRIPS in the Ames Ballistic Range facility. This will provide end-to- end ground testing of TRIPS in the simulated space environment, guided by computational simulations for aeroheating, TPS performance, radiation and MMOD impact resistance, as illustrated in Fig. 2. This effort will also involve the NASA Goddard Space Flight Center.

Background
The president's vision for space exploration calls for implementation of a sustained and affordable human and robotic program for the exploration of space beyond low Earth orbit. The goals of this vision are crewed return to the Moon by 2020 in preparation for human exploration of Mars and other destinations in the solar system. A significant technical obstacle that must be overcome to implement this vision is the development of an improved capability to reduce astronaut exposure to the space radiation environment. Given the additional need for vehicle weight reduction (affordability), there is an urgent need for multi-functional materials that perform structural or other roles, and also provide good radiation shielding capability. Ames is ready to implement a new approach for developing a single protective shield addressing three serious hazards present in deep space missions.

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/files/documents/ostp/NSTC Reports/nni_space_exploration_rpt 2004.pdf

 

How can you say it will?

 

Cosmic rays can penetrate lead, water and steel so what is going to be made better than those things?

 

Yes. Paddoboy, seems to have no understanding of the difference in energy between Van Allen belt trapped particles and primary cosmic rays.

Sort of like saying some thick clothing will protect me from a pea hurtling at me, so with two layers of it, I can safely stand in front of a high speed train.

Cosmic rays are smaller than the nucleus of most atoms, yet some have more kinetic energy than the fastest baseball ever thrown by man. Nano tech has scale much greater (at least 100 times larger than atomic spacing). - It can do nothing to the tiny very high energy "bullets," which are less than one 1000th the size of an atom.

 

Well, our atmosphere is what protects us from cosmic rays so maybe a hyper-concentrated mixture of our atmosphere pumped into an outer shell of a space ship would offer protection?

 

No. Not at all.

We "surface dwellers" are also protected by the area spread out as the thousands of primary cosmic ray's "daughters" in a ground level "shower" (actually great, great, great, etc. grand daughters) with less than 0.000,1* of the primary ray's energy impact the earth's surface over many square miles of area.

I. e. Chances are that not one of these greatly reduced in energy fourth or fifth generation particles will even pass thru your body. In a space craft, the several dozen first and second generation daughters produced in the metal wall will have spread out very little. All or none, typically, may deposit much of their tissue damaging energy in your body.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

Concept illustration of the Pierre Auger cosmic ray detector in Argentina.
Here are some facts bout it:

The detector area is larger than some US states!

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

Look closely and you may be able to see a couple of the other tanks 1.5Km away.

I worked two summers at the Los Almost Scientific Laboratory. I was in bed one night in dark room bout to go to sleep when I experienced a diffuse but bright light flash - I'm almost certain a last generation daughter still traveling faster than the speed of light in the "vitreous humor" of my eye ball, passed thru it. The flash did have the slightly bluish tint that is characteristic of Cherenkov light produced in water. So far that is a "once in a life time event."

* The text I quote above, speaks of "billions" of daughter, still traveling faster than speed of light in water (making Cherenkov radiation). That is because this detector is designed for very rare extremely high energy comic rays. I spoke of those that hit the Earth every millisecond or so and produce only few tens of thousand of "daughters" at ground level, spread out over 100 or so square mile. - I.e. typical / common cosmic rays.

BTW the Pierre Auger Cosmic Ray observatory uses GPS "backwards." I.e. They know exactly where the water tanks are, but don't have precise clocks at each - get the precise time the Cherenkov flash in each tank occurred with / from the GPS clocks. All the rays are going at the speed of light and some tanks "flash" before others. A greater time difference is produced when the rays come in at steeper angle to the surface. Note also each tank uses solar energy with battery storage. Also note the steel roofs of the tanks do not stop even the greatly weaken daughters.
I. e. There is NO WAY to shield astronauts traveling to Mars.
Nor once they get there until they have time to make a "deep cave home" as the atmosphere is thin and larger fraction of the high energy primary rays and first generation daughters slam into what ever is on the surface. The angular spread of the daughters is very small. You need for them to travel more than 10 km before they spread much. 5 feet of Mars dirt over you may just make the problem worse (many more daughters hitting you at the speed of light.)

The real interest is NOT in the rays, but where they come from as this can help us learn how nature makes particle accelerators thousands of times more powerful than we can.

 

Not at all. I'm saying with current research, and testing and manipulation particularly in the field of Nanotechnology, should eventually find a way of creating a reasonably effective shield.
What is stupid to say is that "it will not and it can not"
http://www.nano.gov/nanotech-101/what/definition

There are countless things we are familiar with today, that only a 100 years ago, some too may have said, "it will not and it can not"

 

No you must have missed me telling the typical cosmic ray particle is less than 1000th of an atom's size.

It will not interact much with orbiting electrons, only the nucleus. Thus for any atom the chance of any significant interaction with the atom is less than one in a million. I.e. your nano-technology will need to have several million atoms to get a 50/50 chance of doing anything. If I does something, it will just make some still high energy, faster than light in matter, daughter particles. I.e. make the problem WORSE by the number of daughters that is produced.

Not stupid - just basic physics.* Saying other wise is what is "stupid" (faith, not physics, based wishing /praying)

* I admit I am assuming your can not change the laws of nature, just because you don't like what they dictate.

 

So all the research, knowledge, plans etc that NASA and other space agencies have are stupid are they?
And the many physicists, engineers, cosmologists etc working towards that end are all crazy are they?
Why don't we just give up?

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

Certainly the laws of physics will not be changed, but just as certainly, we will still find a way in time, to protect our Astronauts/Cosmonauts and other naughts.....
The same as we have found a way around many supposedly insurmountable problems in the past.