logically, nothing should exist

By what mechanisms does the universe happen to be? That would be the physics of our universe's universe... something we may never be able to understand (or even interact with.) So, I do not know.
Of course, my point is that this does not imply nonexistance due to an unending causal chain.

-Andrew

 

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lol norse, seriously your questions are being answered, you have asked the same question over and over. you have recieved answers over and over. its kind of like talking to a robot.

you asked what created energy, we all said that energy cannot be created, only transformed. you are looking for some kind of meaning to life and existence. if something is eternal without start, then it does not have a meaning or reason.

peace.

 

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Look Norse, I will try to simplify it for you.

Imagine the universe came into existence exactly 24 hours ago.
Then the universe has, at any point in the past 24 hours, always been (for all time).
The universe has been forever, at any point in the past 24 hours, despite the fact that it has only existed for 24 hours.
This is because there is no 'before time', "before" is a temporal expression and doesn't apply to a timeless situation.

So even if the universe had a 'beginning' it has always been. In fact you can't actually speak of a beginning of time because a beginning requires a 'before'.

I hope this helps.

 

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Ok, forget about time. Just, what materials, and where did they come from that created the universe? They wouldn't have come out of no where now......

 

Norsefire, you can't get a satisfactory answer because science has no satisfactory answer.

Allow me to suggest you read a book called The First Three Minutes of Time, by Steven Weinberg. Weinberg deals the problems of 'what happened before time began'. The short answer is, our science cannot tell. All our theories and mathematics completely break down at the end of the first unit of Planck time, which is 10 ^ -43 power, if I'm remembering correctly.

There are a couple books by Brian Greene dealing with the origin of the universe, and of course, A Brief History of Time by Hawking. Check out the physics section of the public library; do a subject search for 'Cosmology'.

Current information has the universe at about 14 billion years old. So there is a beginning to the universe, it - spacetime - did in fact 'start' then. And despite Enmos' faith in a self-recycling universe, most astronomers and cosmologists do not believe the universe will ever reverse expansion and collapse upon itself. There isn't enough mass in the universe for gravity to take over from the expansion. The universe will continue to expland and finally attain total heat (energy) equilibrium - heat death.

 

It is actually more logical to live than to question existence lol, no im serious. This question is almsot moot. It can only be entertained in fact it logically doesnt matter because logically at base it is more important to stay alive, eat, find shelter, and maintain an aptitude for existing than to even question it. Its more or less the result of imagination and wishful thinking. If you spent all your days questioning in reality or logically, it would not do you one bit of decent good. That is unfortunate, but reality is reality and there's no changing that. This is coming from a solid ground not one based on upon the BIg what if's.

 

This whole thread began with an ancient question and time or history has actually shown our own genius into developing into the whole of humanity we know so well today. The ancients would frown upon our understanding. For it is not within undetstanding to constantly repeat the question, but to actual create anew the reality we may experience. Again teh ancients would frown upon this very thread for tis question was for them, not really for us, but still we hold it so near to us that it is transcluscent enough for us to actually bring it up in life. Our question is not even philosophical anymore. Philosophy is an old word for summing up the validity of existence, but yet we continue. Why? That leads back to the question. Can someone please say something to stop this so that we can actually do something for the human race dead and alive? That is the task that I am not even prepared to conquer, but maybe one of you guys out there can.

 

How does philosophy give us anything, but problems? Why can't philosophy actually solve problems? Why can;t philosophizing give us the answer to infinite resources i.e. food and shit like that? Seriously. This is a good point.

 

1. You cant just leave out time.
2. I just explained how matter always was, no point in asking where it came from.

 

Archie, I declared long ago in this thread that it was pointless to continue the discussion because neither 'theory' can never be proven correct.
I already said that my 'theory' is a belief and not fact.
We, well at least I, have arrived at a 'hypothesis' that doesn't require a 'self-recycling universe', see post 123.

 

I can do all of those.

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What, do you think I'm some kind of weirdo that spends his days pondering about existence ? LOL

 

Dunno :shrug:
But it can be fun though

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Ok, so where did all that you see now come from? Something doesn't come out of nothing, so in the period of nothingness, where did the first something come from?

 

Do you even read what we post ?

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Yes, all of it

But it does not answer the simple question: Where did the necessary whatever come from?

 

It's a meaningless question.
I can't tell you anymore than I already did.
It looks like you're holding on to you 'theory' and I am holding on to mine.
No point in continuing this discussion, like I said before.

 

From a wink. then another wink, and a wink wink wink...

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And that means that logically nothing should exist

Because nothing cannot become something, therefore there shouldn't be anything existing today

But there is...so wtf

 

Exactly! It's completely preposterous!

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Whatever Norse, this whole thread has been a waste of time.