logically, nothing should exist

always means 'at all times'. so yes 'time' existed 'at all times'. but it did have a beginning. a first moment of time.

 

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It may be 'lost' from 'use' but it wont be destroyed, it is transformed.

Well, both i guess. But i was talking about the universe.
If something always was, it never started or happened. If something always was it that doesn't mean it started a loooooong time ago, it means it never started because it always was.

Yes.
I have no evidence.
What evidence do you have that the universe came into existence from nothing ?

So you KNOW how the universe came to be eh ? lol
Well, present the evidence mate.

Any theory that states God made the universe is a creation theory to me.
I don't reject the Big Bang at all.

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How did mortality come into this ? I am not afraid of life at all, and I' m not afraid of death either.
LOL you couldn't be more wrong about me. I have no importance at all, I'm but a mere speck of dust in the universe. I am mortal, contrary to you, you get to have eternal life by you own belief. When i die, I'm dead and will be reabsorbed by nature. Not you, you get to go to heaven and be with God and all that. Hows that for arrogance ? Who is afraid to die here ?

I understand most of it. I have no superior knowledge. I have said before that this discussion is useless because no one can prove either theory.
I am not asserting that any theory is true or false, I am merely stating that I think some theories are more logical than others, and thus have a better change of being true.
You come in and pretend i have just declared myself some sort of Jesus, better read the entire thread before posting such stuff buddy.

 

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Of course, that is nonsense! That's why I want an answer!

But, the idea of it always being there, for no reason with no start point, just existing, is also total nonsense.

 

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So we have established that time always was. Beginning has no meaning when you are speaking of the 'beginning of time'. Even if time has only existed for a nanosecond, it always existed. So i guess we eventually agree.

'coming into existence' would require time.
Here you claimed that in order for there to be 'something' time has to exist.
If 'something' has arisen together with time, we can conclude that 'something' always was.

 

Reason doesn't come into play Norse, it doesn't come into play in your 'theory' either.
Maybe you can find your self in above post ?

 

that doesent make sense, you are implying that something came from nothing. how would you explain your idea?


peace.

 

you have got it confused totaly, what you believe has no reason or cause. if something comes from nothing that is illogical.

if something always existed it wouldent have a reason, meaning, or cause. think about it properly, dont just read this post and ignore what people are saying or its pointless of us having a debate. i am listning to what you are saying.

if you have absolute nothing, then how can something be created? its impossible according to every law of physics we know of.

but if something always existed it does not need a creator, because it is eternal. if something has always existed then there is no question to ask about where it came from. because it didnt come from anywhere due to its eternal nature.

peace.

 

Chi, it doesn't matter, see post 104

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oh i didnt read that

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peace,

 

Look, if the universe always existed, that would not make any sense.

Think of a timeline, the timeline cannot be infinite (from the beginning), because that would suggest that there is an INFINITE amount of matter, space, energy, etc,

That's why, regardless of whether or not there will be an end, there had to be a beginning. If you say it's infinite, that suggests that there is an endless amount of materials, and energy, which is nonsense

 

Norsefire, read post 104. Its done

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why does an eternal existence suggest infinite amount of matter and material?
and ok then its fine to say you dont agree with 1 theory, but how do you explains omething comming from nothing then?

because your doing alot of complaining but not enough explaining

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peace.

 

Why? All that humans have experience with are things that seem to have a beginning and an end. There's no reason for the contrary to be intuitively obvious. It's ok if it's hard to comprehend, but just because you don't dosen't mean it's "nonsense". If you were born a hundred years ago, would being able to float freely in microgravity been any less hard to accept?

There's nothing inherently odd about non-time bound existence. Remember onething. "time" as humans percieve it (like something passing or "moving on") is a completely subjective idea. Inert matter just changes state, from moment to moment, based on external forces. Unless it's shown that protons actually do decay, then there's no reason that a rock in intergalactic space couldn't last, unchanged, "forever".

Your difficulty is entirely one of a lack of imagination, I think.

 

Because, if the universe always existed, therefore the universe, which is energy, matter, and space (or any more of what we don't know), would be infinite. Energy is not infinite, therefore the universe cannot be infinite

It would mean that there was, and will be, an endless amount of energy within the universe

 

Non sequitur, infinite duration does not cause infinite other quantities (such as matter, energy, or space.) Infact, the theory states the opposite: energy is never created or destroyed, and thus, time has no effect on the quantity of energy, or matter in the universe.

-Andrew

 

I know, energy is cannot be created or destroyed

But matter can (as in, convert), and that means that matter must've been infinite, as well as energy, which is bull

 

Matter and energy are essentialy the same thing. Matter can neither be created nor destroyed either.

-Andrew

 

If it cannot be created or destroyed, why does it exist? How does it exist?

 

It always has existed, since it's start.
The overall assumption is that something needs to be created in order to exist. This assumption of course is meaningfull only as long as we have a dimension of time which is govourning the object who's existance is in question. Take a way time, and the problem of something needing to be created is completely meaningless.
Thus, one could say that the matter/energy already existed when time itself came into play, but having no time to exist in, there was no problems of creation or destruction (because as I said, those are meaningless terms without time.)

Since time is apart of the universe itself (and does not govourn it, but rather the things inside it) the problem is solved, and the question of "what created the universe" is entirely meaningless.

-Andrew

 

But what created matter/energy (why are they there)?