logically, nothing should exist

we cant prove it with observation or hard evidence, but we can prove it in the same way we can show some forms of physics through maths. we can present logical evidence but it can never be shown in physical form.

like for example 0+0 = 0, you can never get 1 from a 0.


peace.

 

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Thats how you disprove something equals nothing.
Not how you prove something always was.

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Time and space were created at the big bang we are told. I think its true because I respect the scientists who say it but i'd need to seriously study a lot of maths and physics before i can start to understand what they really mean.

What were time and space like initially? What the hell are they now for that matter? Could one form in some way before/without the other? Perhaps their original natures may be quite unimaginable except in mathematics.

If hot spacetime were being originated then in some way it must have become a cooler kind spacetime as it grew. Why? There was nowhere (yet) for the heat to radiate away. Maybe the heat source was turned off?

Im using lots of words related to time. Like 'was, grew,become,have been,to start with, etc. All seem kind of out of place on this topic when things maybe did'nt apparently use my kind of space or time. I think nature was operating in a way very alien to us here and now, but theres no reason why it should not be scientifically explainable.

I do believe also though that the 'big bang 'whatever it may be was the simplest of inevitable things. To nature the origin of the universe was just as easy to do as the sound of a leaf falling from a tree.

 

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They don't say that, they don't say it because they don't know what happened at the moment of the big bang. For all we know the universe is fluctuating (for ever).

 

it actualy does both

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, think about it. if you cant get 1 from 0, that means we must have started with atleast 1,

1+1 = 2, we need the 1s otherwise we cant have anything. 0 represents nothing and 1 represents something. so in conclusion there must have always been 1s. because you cant get anything out of 0s.


peace.

 

Its not very solid proof, but i guess its the best we've got

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lol yeah, as far as maths goes though its pretty good. 0+0 could never produce 1. we have to conclude that existence has always been 1.


peace.

 

Because otherwise that would be saying that all matter, energy, etc has always been there, for absolutely no reason nor deriving from any sort of begining, which is nonsense.

 

no, because time itself has a benning and there is no 'before time began'.

 

no, the fact that it has always existed is the reason. something deriving from absolute nothing without a reason is nonesense.

how would you explain such an event in your theory?


peace.

 

on what basis do you say time had a start?


peace.

 

And something equaling nothing is not nonsense ?

Lets say for a second that your theory is correct. First there was nothing, then, all of a sudden there was something.
Something came into existence from nothing, for what reason ? What reason can you provide for that ? If you cant point to a reason your theory is nonsense as you yourself pointed out.

 

How does that change anything ? What caused time to come into existence ?

 

it didnt. 'coming into existence' would require time.

instead of saying 'exists' how about saying 'happens'. that which happens happens. and in happening it causes itself to happen again.

 

Entropy...

Every time energy is used, a little bit of it is lost from use. That little bit can never be recovered. Which means, sooner or later, the universe will not have any usable energy left. That is what is known as 'heat-death' and nothing will ever happen after that point. The universe as a place where life can develop and people can participate in internet forums has a limited, finite lifespan.

That heat death hasn't happened yet. Obviously. I don't get around like I used to, but I still get around.

If the universe were infinitely old, had 'always' existed, this would have happened long ago. Therefore, the universe is not infinitely old. Therefore, the universe had a starting point. The expansion of the universe and the average temperature of the universe confirm this theory.

The universe is about 12.7 to 13.7 billion years old, give or take an eon.

What started it all? The mechanics of it are explained in the 'Big Bang' theory. It fits most of the known facts about the universe and makes predictions that are confirmed whenever we can do the experiments.

The 'why' of it is the real problem. Us Christian believers know why, and the atheists all put their hands over their ears and sing "lalalalalala" whenever the subject comes up. Or make up great theories about 'multiple universes' and 'mega-verses' which can't be detected or interacted... ain't that the bee's knees?

Whatever one wants to believe to sooth one's fears beside the point; the universe did begin at a specific point and will end at a specific point. If one can't deal with that, one is in denial.

And the original poster is correct: There is no reason - absent that awkward God person - why anything should exist at all.

 

So time always was.. ? :shrug:

 

Energy doesn't get 'lost', it is only transformed. You can't destroy or create energy.

If the universe were infinitely old, had 'always' existed, this would have happened long ago.
No it wouldn't have happened long ago, it always was.. it never 'happened'.

Therefore, the universe is not infinitely old. Therefore, the universe had a starting point.
What about a fluctuating universe ?

The 'why' of it is the real problem. Us Christian believers know why, and the atheists all put their hands over their ears and sing "lalalalalala" whenever the subject comes up. Or make up great theories about 'multiple universes' and 'mega-verses' which can't be detected or interacted... ain't that the bee's knees?
Oh, you're one of those...
You don't know why, you belief you know why.
So the creation theory hasn't been made up ? Yeah, right. :bugeye:
How is the creation theory detected or interacted ? :bugeye:

Whatever one wants to believe to sooth one's fears beside the point; the universe did begin at a specific point and will end at a specific point. If one can't deal with that, one is in denial.
Sooth one's fear ? What the hell.. aren't you talking about yourself !?
If one doesn't belief the shit that you belief in they are in denial ? Give me a break.. :bugeye:

 

you are assuming that prior to that first moment that there was a 'nothing'. but there wasnt. there is no 'prior to the beginning'. something didnt come from nothing. it came from everything.

 

If there was no prior to beginning there wasn't any time prior to beginning either. This means the universe always was, but in a different way.
I like this version, but there will be trouble explaining how this came to be.

 

Energy is lost from use. Perhaps you should read up on entropy. This isn't something unknown.

What never happened, Enmos? Entropy, or the Universe?

Are you talking about the 'pulsating' Universe that expands and contracts? What evidence do you have to support such a thought?

How do you type with your hands over your ears (eyes in this case) and making noises to distract yourself? You are one of those, aren't you? Sorry to disturb your dreamworld, Enmos.

Which 'creation theory' do you reference, sir? The Big Bang theory of the universe, or the Creation story in Genesis? I take it you reject both, is that it?

No, Enmos, I'm talking about you. You're so afraid of life you deny your mortality. You can't face up to thinking there is something more important than you. It's a pretty common failing.

You understand neither entropy nor heat death nor the singularity beginning, and I'm supposed to bow to your superior knowledge? I've had this discussion before, and with educated people, too.