Live Baby thrown in Garbage at Abortion Clinic

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by madanthonywayne, Feb 6, 2009.

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  1. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    This story is disgusting. Apparently, a woman went to an abortion clinic and, while waiting for the doctor, she went into labor and gave birth! What happened next is horrific:
    She says Gonzalez knocked the baby off the recliner chair where she had given birth, onto the floor. The baby's umbilical cord was not clamped, allowing her to bleed out. Gonzalez scooped the baby, placenta and afterbirth into a red plastic biohazard bag and threw it out.
    http://www.buffalonews.com/260/story/570428.html

    It's true that the baby was only 23 weeks old and would probably have died anyway (although some babies born that young have survived), but such callous disregard for human life is disturbing. Does this say something about the effect working at an abortion clinic has on a person?
     
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  3. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

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    No.
    It says something about an individual.
     
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  5. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    I almost added "or is this just a sick individual", but I knew someone would jump right in and say that. Still, you don't think that working at a place where a "fetus" is nothing but a part of the biowaste to be disposed of when the procedure is finished has any effect on a person? No effect at all? I mean, whether you believe abortion is a woman's right or not, do you really think it's just one more medical procedure no different from an appendectomy?
     
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  7. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

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    I think some people who work at the clinics just see it as a medical procedure and some see it as something which is a heart-wrenching experience for all those involved and they work there because they want to care for these people and still others just see it as a job and don't think about what is done there.
    I think this person likely saw it as nothing more than a medical procedure or nothing more than a job before getting the job there.

    Those who are compassionate and understand the gravity of the situation and the difficulty of the decision - I don't think they would get jaded. If anything, their compassion would be increased.
     
  8. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Money before ethics

    It inevitably has an effect. But you're talking about a doctor who got his degree from a school in the third world. There is even a question about whether he was legally permitted to perform this abortion. And the person who put the baby in the trash? Not even that. A clinic owner with no license to practice medicine.

    Quite clearly, this was a sketchy operation at best. The effect of working at a place where a fetus can be biological waste material is likely less than the effect of treating health care primarily as a business proposition.

    These people unquestionably put money before ethics and basic dignity. As a general principle, that's perfectly American. This is just an extreme example of the horrifying consequences such principles can bring.
     
  9. draqon Banned Banned

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    abortion is killing, justified killing.
     
  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Hmmm - maybe it's time to resurrect an old line of scam: seeing as how most miscarriages are discarded as medical waste or flushed down toilets without waiting for them to die - or even verifying whether they are alive - and this is true in the finest pro-life hospitals, not just badly run abortion clinics,

    what exactly is the problem here from the prolife pov?

    From the point of view of someone like me, who believes that human life is grown over a period of months, that a 23 week fetus is much more of a human being - much closer to being, and possibly is already, a person - some shock and outrage is easy to predict and obvious in cause.

    But to someone who believes truly that a human being is present from conception, and has already established the norm of throwing such miscarried humans into the garbage alive as a matter of routine, why is this case different?
     
  11. draqon Banned Banned

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    its like military, justifying the kills of the enemy...but really the people/animals and destruction of our creation minds.

    My POV on this is simple, the process of life creation starts when egg is fertilized by sperm. We all have experienced this process, it is the first thing that we are. The joining of two parts into one, is what made us. We changed quite a bit after that time, we grew bigger and more complex...but essentially we are all the same down to the core.

    The question however is does destroying what makes us within others, justifiable?
    From moral POV and fair rights, the answer is NO.

    But this is life, we have to kill, and on many levels we have to do so. We have to kill ambitions of others, we have to kill people to succeed in campaigns, we have to kill babies who do not suit us, we have to kill races that are against us, we have to kill or we die.

    So in Conclusion...really I believe that abortion should have a line where it is legal and illegal after a certain stage of the baby's development. A line where baby gains a brain that has an ability to give its consciousness.

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    You see a cell? I see a human.
     
  12. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    This is a 21 week old "fetus"

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  13. draqon Banned Banned

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    Can God kill its creations?

    Yes

    Can programmer delete its program?

    Yes

    Can Life erase a branch of genes in evolution?

    Yes

    so why cannot mother kill her infant? Because she is not the only one who made the infant, it was the father's as well. They both can kill the infant.
     
  14. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Depraved indifference comes to mind. Life is nothing more than collateral damages.
     
  15. draqon Banned Banned

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    Nope, life is somewhere in between. Its not full care...total fair judgement. Its a balance of depraved indefference and loving care.

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    A balance of happiness and sadness.
     
  16. draqon Banned Banned

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    Her eyes closed on herself, in mirror she saw no more.
     
  17. Enmos Registered Senior Member

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    The placenta is the afterbirth.
     
  18. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    *************
    M*W: There's something not right about this article. A 23-week gestation requires a procedure that takes more than one day. It requires the insertion of laminaria (seaweed) into the cervix which causes the cervix to dilate. The patient returns to the clinic dilated and the doctor removes the fetus. No life support measures are given to the fetus. Once in a great while in an abortion clinic, a 23-week fetus is born alive and just won't die. I've seen doctors who have slammed the fetal head onto the counter to crush it. In Texas these physicians must be board certified to do abortions. Normally, these same doctors have respectable OB/GYN practices outside the abortion clinic. In Texas, the State board governing abortion clinics inspect every abortion clinic each year. In NY, there are no laws governing abortions. I don't know about FL.

    It sounds to me that something is not right about the article. I cannot imagine any abortion clinic putting a dead fetus in the trash. Most abortion clinics are by law required to send the remains to a lab (however developed the fetus is). Also, I can't imagine biohazard waste material being left in a garbage can for a week! Biohazard material that is secured in specially wrapped containers is picked up on schedule by a biohazard material pick-up and delivery service, and that would have been the only way fetal material was in the clinic for a week before disposal. The newspaper might have technically told some truths, but it was definitely biased.

    It was the patient, herself, who was responsible for the fetus, and the clinic owner did the correct action by placing the fetus in the biohazard waste, although the article didn't specify this. Again, I don't know what the laws in FL are, but this is the way we do it in TX. As far as I can tell, nothing out of the ordinary happened except that the physician wasn't there. The fetus was expulsed due to the first part of the abortion procedure that caused her cervix to dilate. The only thing that was not needed in this expulsion was there was no need for instrumentation to remove the fetus.

    Again, this is just another case of the news media slanting the truth for the purpose of sensationalism.
     
  19. lucifers angel same shit, differant day!! Registered Senior Member

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    no it says somthing about the person who wanted to abort the baby in the first place!!
     
  20. lucifers angel same shit, differant day!! Registered Senior Member

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    :bravo: see a cell see a human being
     
  21. Enmos Registered Senior Member

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    That's not a cell :bugeye:
     
  22. lucifers angel same shit, differant day!! Registered Senior Member

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    if a woman gets pregnant then she should see it through or keep her legs crossed,
    or even get some birth controle.
     
  23. Enmos Registered Senior Member

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    I think it will be too late by then..
     
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