Life metaphors

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by birch, Jun 10, 2017.

  1. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Now that im alredy here an life is good i want to stay... but if life turns bad enuff i woud prefer that it end in oblivion.!!!

    Knowin about the horrors that can occur in life... if i had the opportunity for a do-over... ie... bein born agan under diferent circumstances... i woud choose oblivion insted.!!!

    Also... knowin about the horrors that can occur in life... i had rather that "God" chose oblivion insted of the creation of life as we know it.!!!
     
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  3. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Substitute 'non sentinant physics' for god and you are asking something which is not alive - please don't create life just keep oblivion.

    Non sentinant physics does not have ANY say in what happens. Physics is constrained by fixed laws. So fixed they have NEVER been broken

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  5. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    I tossed "God" into the mix so Bible-believers woudnt feel left out

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  7. Michael 345 Valued Senior Member

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    Got it. Cheers. But the logic stands. Curious as to which they would pick. Here on Earth to worship him but so much bad. Give them a choice. Go to Earth (giving them a snippet of what they would be up for) or god ask, give you nothing
    Choose

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  8. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    I cant speek for Bible-believers... but they foller Jesus no questons asked... no mater what horrors he imposes on his beloved creations.!!!
     
  9. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    See, that's thing. You cannot know if it's going to be good or and unless you decide to try it (to live).
    And you don't get a re-do.

    So, yes, each of us who is currently alive has chosen to take the risk that the good outweighs (and continues to outweigh) the bad. We can complain that it's bad all we want, but that's empty. Each moment we stay alive, we are proving we prefer it to oblivion.

    The only remaining step for those complaining about life is to acknowledge that, by their action (inaction), they are preferring life.
     
  10. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Correct... we dont get a do-over but we do get hypotheticals... so what are you'r answrs to my hypotheticals:::

    Do you thank that life coud be bad enuff for you to prefer oblivion.???

    When you'r an old man an on you'r death bed... do you thank you would choose to be born agan to some other parents... or choose oblivion.???

    If you coud have advised God... woud you have told him to choose oblivion if life as we know it is the best plan he coud come up wit.???
     
  11. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    If you claim to choose oblivion, I'd say you forfeit the right to hypotheticals.

    (It's equivalent to saying "I don't vote, but I'd like Hillary to be prez.")

    The corollary, then, is: if you wish to speculate about the condition of life, you must first choose life.

    I'm going to have to make a distinction here:
    Oblivion, as I have been using, does not mean suicide; it means preferring to never have lived at all. (Note, by the way, that this means you forfeit any ability to make any choices for yourself; you are asking the greater reality to make the choice for you.)

    One can always choose - after living a miserable life - to die. One cannot make a judgement call on whether life might be good or bad if one chooses not to opt in in the first place.

    This is a very tricky question, because it violates the very premise of oblivion: that you cannot know if life is going to be good or bad without actually experiencing it.

    Essentially, anyone on their death bed who says they regret having lived is lying. If they've been granted nothing else by living, they have been granted the option of having an opinion at all. To claim to prefer oblivion is to claim one does not want the ability to have an opinion, let alone regrets.

    Absolutely not. (Granting for argument, the existence of God, and his subsequent creation of us), one can argue he has given us the choice.
    You can choose death, having lived - but you cannot choose life, having never existed. Choice is a privilege only bestowed upon the living.
     
  12. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks for you'r partisipation.!!!

    I will answr my hypotheticals:::

    Do you thank that life coud be bad enuff for you to prefer oblivion.??? Yes

    When you'r an old man an on you'r death bed... do you thank you would choose to be born agan to some other parents... or choose oblivion.??? oblivion

    If you coud have advised God... woud you have told him to choose oblivion if life as we know it is the best plan he coud come up wit.??? oblivion
     
  13. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    These are all choices you can only make by first having the experience of living.

    So, your answers contain the presupposition that you wanted to have had life in order than that you can then judge it.

    Wouldn't the world be much simpler place if we could have a test-run to see if we will like it...
     
  14. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Hard to say if it woud be much simpler... but i bet ther woud be many fewer horror-stories-of-a-life that many get born into.!!!

    If i coud get a preview of what i was in for an it was about as good as my current life id go for it in a hartbeat... if it sucked id choose oblivion.!!!
     
  15. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Precisely.
    You would need to be conscious to make that decision.
    Since non-existent entities do not make decisions.
     
  16. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    I didnt choose to be alive... but now that i am an see the horrors of what life is... i had rather that "God" had not created life as we know it an kept thangs at oblivion.!!!

    How about you.???
     
  17. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    You're missing the point.

    Expressing and opinion, having an opinion, even thinking (about what God should have done) are all privilege you only get by being alive.
    If you were to choose oblivion then you also choose to not have a preference - or even a thought - about what God would have done.

    Or think of it another way, even though alive, you could still choose, right now to take on the trappings of someone who never lived.
    How does someone who never lived behave? They nothing to say - no opinion - about whether God should have given life.

    So, when you claim to wish God had never created life, you can put your money where your mouth is: by having no opinion of it - as any oblivious entity would.


    The corollary of course, is that, by your own actions (having an opinion), you are choosing to take advantage of your existence. Regardless of what you claim, you are demonstrating that you prefer being alive over oblivion.
     
  18. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    I like to answr hypotheticals... an once agan... thanks for you'r partisipation

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  19. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    The best metaphor about life I heard is The River, it never crosses the same place twice. As for your analogy, Birch, monsters might be real, but how often do we find ourselves fighting one?
     
  20. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    :watches bowser poke the bear:
    :takes a big step away:

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  21. birch Valued Senior Member

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    https://thoughtcatalog.com/denise-n...gic-death-of-16-year-old-sylvia-marie-likens/

    https://ripeace.wordpress.com/2012/09/14/the-murder-of-junko-furuta-44-days-of-hell/

    People have illusions of where they are and what 'others' are. Contrary to what we tell ourselves to feign we live in a saner universe or more pleasant world than it is, these types of people are not unusual; it just takes the right circumstances and opportunism for the darkness and evil to show itself. These are your everyday people whether they want to admit it or not. most people are junk, trash and evil, especially fallible when it comes to ethics or morals. this is why there is laws, police and judicial system to enforce or de-incentivize.
     
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  22. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    From Birch Post 13
    The above relates to DanShawen Post 12
    I have no knowledge of the statistics related to the above Posts.

    While I suspect that more than 1% of the population lie or cheat, it could be true that sociopaths make up only 1% of the population, which is what DanShawen claims.

    Sociopath is (I believe) a term well defined by psychologists & psychiatrists which refers to folks who have little or no conscience & little or no concern for the well being of others. These folks are the serial killers as well as those who enjoy torturing animals & people.

    Torturing animals when a teenager or younger tends strongly to be a symptom of a person who will be a sociopath as an adult.​

    BTW: I consider cheating to be worse than lying, although I condone neither activity.
     
  23. birch Valued Senior Member

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    the reason it is diagnosed only with cases that can be prosecuted in a court of law. it has to to with practicality and here we go: concrete evidence. however, many people enjoy torturing or abusing people, not necessarily physically which tends to be the only way, again, it is usually brought to attention of law.

    so, truthfully, there are more sociopaths but it is impractical to categorize, mostly because it would be anecdotal. but we know from life experience that people abuse others in ways other than serial killings. also, in reality, it is counterproductive to label large quantities of the members of a society negatively and for their various sins (even if correct) if you want their cooperation. it is also a matter of politics and appeasing ego and self-image. this is why it is mainly used in popular culture to identify serial murderers, rapists etc but in truth, mental health professionals are aware that there are more sociopaths than this.

    it is also a fallacy that just because a person may not be a serial killer etc automatically means they have a conscience or have empathy, ethics etc. this is a superficial assumption because it takes planning, effort and work to carry out large scale crimes that could land you in prison, especially repeatedly, without getting caught. many people do not want to deal with those riskier repercussions, not necessarily because they have morals or care about others.

    if serial killing was the only form of wrong in the world, then society should be a cakewalk and it isn't.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2017

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