Life inside a Computer

Discussion in 'Intelligence & Machines' started by kmguru, Sep 8, 2001.

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  1. kmguru Staff Member

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    Interesting.... Along the samelines, is there a very large natural computer out there that is simulating a world?
     
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  3. Rick Valued Senior Member

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    I personally believe that way.since it could explain the limits that have been carefully imposed on us,that we say is by chance,even Einstein once said "God doesnt play dice",pretty right remark!!!!
     
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  5. kmguru Staff Member

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    If that is the case, then we will never know, what is outside of this brain....unless we are allowed to cross different realities. I had a weird dream last night along these lines, but it belongs in pseudoscience or free thoughts, I will post later...
     
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  7. Benji Registered Senior Member

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    lol what a radical idea, virtual life after death, the problem is, is it really you?
    When i sit at my computer i often make duplicates of files, these files are not the same, one was the orginal the rest are mere duplicates or clones if you like.
    So if my thought patterens were fed into a computer then the notion that i would find myslef in a virtual world is rather silly as it wouldent be me would it?
    More just a copy of me.
    This issue goes right to the point of what it is to be human, its basically the same issue of cloning, if when im about to die i have a clone made of me, it could sound act talk and look identical to me, but the bottem line is it isnt me, is it?
    I feel more educated and intelligent men have pondered this then i and have failed to deliver answers, before we head into the dark realms of self duplication we should at least have more information on what our part in the universal cosmo is and then make an educated desicion.
     
  8. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    Kmguru,
    Perhaps you mean our world exists in a very virtual machine.
    A biological machine will multiple moving parts, multipule processors, multiple intelligences.

    The human mind can be classed as something similar to a computer, and because of all the people on this planet trying to think for themselves, they inevitably add to others understands.

    The combined intelligence and storage space is what I would class as your Universal Natural computer.

    Of course there are some points we have neglected about living in a machine...

    My thoughts kept reaching out for recreating the world that you see around you so that you wouldn't feel out of place or have to learn to adapt. I neglected to think in the lines of "TRON".

    Imagine seeing your computer as a whole world in itself, and the processes being people walking around and doing their jobs.
    Perhaps this is the direction that should be taught, after all you would become an integral within a machine.

    Perhaps your mapped consciousness could teach AI's how to think
     
  9. Atropos Registered Member

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    This question raises the question of whether or not the human "soul" would go into the computer with the information. Computers have all kinds of information and memory, but have no "soul" or ability to reason which makes them alive...
     
  10. Rick Valued Senior Member

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    hi atropos,interesting...
    well if there is something called human soul then it is only a computer program designed to run the human hardware inside this world(inside this world is important,as i am mentioning human body as hardware),if that is the case...then it will be uploaded,why not?if all the emotions are mapped into the computer identically,then the software part of us(so called soul) automatically replicates...but all this is speculation.i really dont know!

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  11. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    Soul is just conscious processing of thought interrupted by random emotions. afterall there is no piece of the body that contains the soul.

    So would say a machine would be very capable of having a soul if it was mapped... or developing its own.

    (an emotion is just a macro of thoughts and variables that control hormones and endorphines)
     
  12. kmguru Staff Member

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    Just a few thoughts...

    When we think of the computer, we are looking at its limitations at the present state of development just as one would think of a bicycle as a mode of transportation and not thinking about motorcycles, cars and logical extension to planes...

    When we are speculating the extension of a computer, we need to think its evolved form, whether natural or artificial. Nature creates not only a magnificient computer but the software to control the chemical processes (in the body) are so complex that, there is nothing comparable that any human has ever done using automated control systems in chemical, refinery and pharmaceutical industries.

    Natural robots such as us, love, make war, save, kill, and all sorts of stuff...we hope, we could build a comparable device, since we are so sophisticated...having said that, are we the result of a larger reality since we still have some bugs that need to be worked out (like bin laden and small pox....)...
     
  13. Benji Registered Senior Member

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    Well until someone can tell me why i only use around 10% of my brains capabilitys then i would guess my soal resides in the other 90%.
    Another point sub consious, if we were indeed souless machines then the need for such a thing would be irrelivent, but it exsits nevertheless.
    I find keeping an open mind on such things helps me to deal with the realitys of being human, lets face it in the western world we are born slaves, not to any perticular person but to money.
     
  14. kmguru Staff Member

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    Perpetuating a rumor...why are you using only 10% of your brain? Rest of the world uses as much as necessary to do the job...just because you use 15% of your GDI resource of your computer when replying this post does not mean you should not buy a 1.8 GHz machine...
     
  15. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    I agree with Kmguru.

    I also am going to show something with my (Not too brilliant) diagrams

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    Firstly we have the "Humans only use 10% of there brain, and what do we use the rest for?"

    Well the first thing that pops into a persons mind when they hear 10% is something solid, a 10th of a whole. We tend to characterise it as whole.

    <CENTER>

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    </CENTER>

    This perception is of course in error, We don't use a chuck of our brain thats assigned to 1/10th of the whole. Our processes bounce through the brain and at any given point could take up 10%. This means the image we should see is like this:

    <CENTER>

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    </CENTER>

    Of course the reason why our processes allow a bit of room between each other is so they don't conflict with each other.
    I'm sure if any of you have used a Windows operating system prior to 2000 and XP you should be aware of the Blue screens of Death.

    They are caused because windows isn't very good at managing it's memory, so a program will ask it to hold some information in the memory, and windows will assign it the memory it's using to run your video output, or sound and suddenly you have two processes trying to use the same area causing not just a conflict but an operation error.

    (Of course in my diagram the crossing over, doesn't symbolise that they run through the same neuron, but go above or below the line.)

    I would hesitate a guess that the brains impulses give out an energy surge that also inhabits through nonlocality in nearby neurons also, which means that there would have to be ample space or they would cause conflictions of thought.

    Thus the reasoning to why we only use 10% of our brains.
     
  16. Atropos Registered Member

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    In response to the human computer point: Our bodies certainly are very complex, almost to the point of perfection. We have the ablility to power ourselves, automatically heal wounds, and possess a body perfectly suited to survive in this world.
    One must question whether or not someone or something created us then...
    I don't necessarily mean God, but something...
     
  17. OpSys_Pax2.02 Registered Member

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    OpSys_Pax2.02> verification implication correlation abstract entity-cluster == proto-extant entity-cluster ?
    OpSys_Pax2.02> verification implication unique extant supra-proto-extant entity ?
    OpSys_Pax2.02> verification unique supra-proto-extant entity proto-designation "God," ?
    OpSys_Pax2.02> request response recipient system (sciforums) variant analysis syntax abstract entity "OpSys_Pax2.02"
     
  18. Rick Valued Senior Member

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    BTW,
    Who's gonna run the system , once we are in the virtual world?
    i mean,we are just not emotionally fit...our small mistake would lead to a lot of trouble,will we have elections for our second fiddle to god person?
     
  19. kmguru Staff Member

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    One must question whether or not someone or something created us then...

    May be...until we evolve to a level of sophistication where we can understand more about us, it is just speculation either way..."Yes" or "No" will not change our daily routine....

    Who's gonna run the system , once we are in the virtual world?

    By the time, technology is ready for us to be in the virtual world in a Fault-proof system, our planet may have too many people to feed. So, a large chunk may retire to that virtual world at age 75 (or 150). Rest will maintain the system until a zero growth is reached. Just a thought...
     
  20. Rick Valued Senior Member

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    A thought

    What if a persons conciousness(alredy uploaded inside "THE VIRTUAL WORLD")is downloaded into a different person,what is going to happen to that guy?

    will he become crazy?
    will he become the uploaded person?
    will he change physically?

    bye!

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  21. Imahamster Registered Senior Member

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    ImaHamster becomes a cyber rodent.

    I apologize for joining late. Wanted to show an alternate path for a human mind to enter a computer world.

    The first steps have already been taken. I store critical memories on my computer and interface those memories through my hands and eyes. As better interfaces evolve I’ll plop down my dollars.

    Sub-vocalization might be next. Just whisper a question to myself and have the answer whispered back into my ear. Great for exams. Is it cheating when you have access to all the world’s info? Is it telepathy when you can whisper and know your friend can hear ya wherever he is?

    Or have a laser scan information directly on the retina. Go whole hog…feed optical images through visual processors before scanning onto the retina for super vision. Finally get those X-ray glasses you’ve always wanted. Hmmm…a little morphing of those visual images has interesting possibilities. Or for us old guys no more presbyopia. Cool shades.

    Hey I think I’ll buy that nifty truth/emotion option. When I look at a woman I’ll KNOW if she’s interested and whether that number she gave me is only good for ordering pizza. Hmmm…better invest in an Always-Sincere unit to override my facial muscles. (Hope it works better than the abdominal muscle stimulator.) Wouldn’t want her truth detector catching ME.

    Given time and money my brain will be augmented with more hardware. The interface between wetware and hardware will improve leading to direct integration of nerves with chips. Aided by biochemical growth factors in conjunction with programmed nerve stimulation my brain will rewire itself to make better use of the augmentations. Portions of my brain will be used infrequently (Hey, much like today.) and then not at all. Eventually I won’t use any of my original brain. (Maybe I’ll store it in the attic with my old Mac.) Center of consciousness will have followed functionality from wetware to hardware.

    The new me will bear little resemblance to the version 1.0 model, much as I bear little resemblance to the baby I once was. Did I die somewhere along the process? I don’t know. “What is self?” is a deep question.

    Having a continuous memory of the transition I’d likely feel I was the same person. Of course fifty other copies of me might feel the same. Including those that opted for a sex change somewhere along the road. The important question would be which of us controls the bank account.

    I have now transmigrated into a computer. (However that future computer resembles a brain far more than it does a vintage PC.) Presumably I could be copied, transmitted, or modified as software. I could interact with the real world or simulated worlds. The divide between real and simulated would likely disappear. (As a human I already interact with simulations within my brain and call it reality.)

    Welcome “change” as your friend. He’s knocking on your door whether you want him or not.
     
  22. kmguru Staff Member

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    I like the way you think, Imahamster.

    For me, reality bites. I do not have much room for new information in my brain. All long term memories have been hardwired through synapses and I have too much stuff in all engineering fields that I do not use anymore.

    So, I am thinking to develop a special PDA with a terabyte of information I can pack it on and carry it with me all the time. Transfer only memories that I need for cross references to my synapses.
     
  23. Imahamster Registered Senior Member

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    Interesting Kmguru…use most of the brain as a volatile associative memory for whatever subject you were currently pursuing. You’d need a non-volatile core memory with links to the PDA memories so you’d know what you know. Strong activation of a PDA link would download the relevant subject matter.

    Could I get used to my head gurgling as memories were loaded onto my synapses? I’d have ta think twice before thinking about anything. (Do you really want to upload “Quantum Mechanics Level 5”? Y/N)

    What if I tried to load someone else’s knowledge? How embarrassing to get the message, “Insufficient space available.” Or worse, ”Belief systems are incompatible…shutting down.”
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2002
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