LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reactions).

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by Yetanothersock, Jan 20, 2014.

  1. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

    There are days when we don't go because of the minis and doubles tournaments that start a group on every hole and rotate through. Wednesday and Friday at Seawright, Thursdays at Zilker.

    Though when the ace pot gets above $300 it gets tempting...
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  3. Alexis Registered Member

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  5. Walter L. Wagner Cosmic Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

    Interesting Comment from this article follows below this link:

    (signed in using yahoo)

    It's a pity that Mr. Darden isn't concentrating on the skeptics. Or at least examining their concerns. I wish he would vet this experiment and the experimenters with much more care and concern than he has used.

    Mr. Rossi has given out a huge stream of conflicting and implausible information for three years on the silly blog he pompously misnamed "The Journal of Nuclear Physics" (ROTFWL!) . Perhaps Mr. Darden doesn't read it? He should! Here is a summary:


    Mr. Rossi has also performed almost a dozen public demos. Each has featured a different device-- he has NEVER done the same test twice. Early tests left open the possibility of cheating with the use of wet steam when dry steam was claimed. Other tests may have appeared to give positive results because thermocouple temperature measuring sensors were misplaced. Those concerns could have been easily dealt with by blank runs and calibrations but Rossi always refused those in early tests and nobody insisted.

    Now, Rossi's tests include blank runs but the blanks are not comparable to the actual tests. And now, it seems as if the possible cheating is by means of the input power measurement rather than the output. The scientists doing the test use clamp on ammeters which are easily fooled by simple wiring tricks such as this one:

    Just as important, the tests are not really independent. They are led by Giussepe Levi, a close friend and colleague of Rossi's for many years. And Rossi is always involved -- in the first so-called independent test, Rossi's lab and power source were used. In the second test, Rossi was personally and directly involved in setting up the experiment, switching from the "dummy" run (control) to the active run and removing the ash from the reactor.

    Finally, Rossi is a convicted felon in Italy and served jail time. Exactly for what has been argued. But there is no argument that he created a costly environmental disaster with his failed company, Petroldragon. And less than ten years ago, Rossi proposed to make efficient thermoelectric modules for the Department of Defense. There is considerable evidence that the proposal was based on fraud and that no efficient prototypes ever existed. The final modules delivered seemed to be surplus rejects from a San Diego company who bought them in Russia! None worked properly and the project was dropped. The DOD unit which contracted $9 million for this fiasco was so embarrassed by this that they removed their report about it from the internet but you can still read it here:


    And Rossi's criminal past is detailed here:


    Why an accomplished industrialist and investor like Mr. Darden trusts this person is very hard for me to understand.

    If Mr. Darden or someone from his company wants to discuss this with me, they are welcome to reply here or to send me an email at maryyugo [at symbol] yahoo [dot] com."
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  7. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    In Rossi's defence, the Italian court is deemed tortuous at best.
    Whether he did much wrong is open to debate,
    although he was punished.

    My view on him is that he is a showman.
    An entertainer almost.
    I am amazed at how gullible ostensibly intelligent people can be.
    People want to believe in wonders.

    This field of study, LENR and cold fusion,
    has, I feel, some buried gold.
    But Rossi is not the rainbow to follow.
  8. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

  9. zgmc Registered Senior Member

    Make me the third. I am basically addicted to the sport. Give it a try sometime. I would suggest starting with a putter, or a midrange until you get the hang of how to throw them properly.
  10. Alexis Registered Member

  11. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    This is a patent application, not a granted patent. It remains to be seen whether the US Patent Office grants it, after examination. Inutility is a ground for rejection in the US, I believe.
  12. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

  13. Alexis Registered Member

    I agree, if you read the patent then it is obvious that it is prepared by someone skilled in 'Patent Terminology'... but also that it has a number of errors.
    IH Inc have other patents in the wings, and they have the funds to play the competition.
    But my question was:
    How do you envisage this scam to play out?
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2014
  14. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    Rossi will keep on claiming that something is going to happen next month or next year,
    and setting up independent tests, and talking about secret deals.
    Until eventually he is so old that he dies.
    A few years later, all his experiments and reports will be forgotten.
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2014
  15. Alexis Registered Member

    Andrea Rossi is an employee of Industrial Heat Inc... he will eventually die, and it saddens me to say that my life is also limited... maybe you will live forever?
    The applicant for this patent is Industrial Heat Inc, the patent does not become invalid if someone dies.
    I reiterate 'How do you envisage this scam to play out?'
  16. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    No indeed, but the patent first has to be granted. Until then it is not a patent, just an application.

    And even if granted, which it may well not be, it is only useful if someone makes a working machine. The files of the world's patent offices are full of rejected or abandoned applications and with granted patents that were never commercialised.

    Regarding how the "scam" plays out, I can only speculate, but I think the most likely evolution of this saga is that it will die out gradually, as people gradually lose faith that there will ever be either a commercial device or a theory explaining its supposed mode of operation. As I believe I have indicated previously, I am not sure that this is a typical "scam" in the sense of a means of fraudulently enriching Rossi et al. I think he could well be someone caught up in the skeins of an idea that doesn't work and who can't bear to admit it.

    He looks nuts to me.
  17. origin In a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect. Valued Senior Member

    I think the captain hit the nail on the head. The driver of the scam is Rossi, when he is gone the scam will fad into oblivion like so many others.
  18. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    Rossi is like the leader of a religion.
    You have to believe in the e-cat.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

  19. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    So, Rossi is an employee.
    Who owns the company?
  20. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    I have checked up on Industrial Heat, and it doesn't look like Rossi has any controlling interest in it.
    Yes, Alexis, an interesting and surprising development.
    It's a pity Kwhillborn isn't here any more.
    He would enjoy this.

    This is the manager's profile:

    Is it definite that Industrial Heat LLC has taken over the e-cat?
    You said Industrial Heat Inc.
    Is that the same company?

    Added later.
    According to this article, yes.

    I won't put my crow on order for eating just yet, but the company is a big one.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2014
  21. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    Should one desire to buy a crow for culinary purposes,
    where might it be purchased?
    Alexis likes this.
  22. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    This is a great thread.
    Just when you think it is completely sewn up and dead, something new happens.
    I wish the previous version that disappeared could be recovered.
    There was a massive amount of input on that thread,
    and it went back years.
  23. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Indeed, I would avoid jumping to conclusions. I made the point, on the old, now deleted thread, that some R&D companies have a strategy of spending a few dollars here and there on intellectual property rights to wild and wacky things, just in case a small proportion of them turn out to have something real about them. It may be that Rossi has sold the rights to this sufficiently cheaply for them think it is worth a punt. And for Rossi, an elegant way of getting at least some financial reward for all his "work".

    So I don't believe developments such as this really tell us anything new about the true likelihood of there being something real behind the supposed invention.

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