Languages and Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion' started by jayleew, Mar 28, 2018.

  1. jayleew Who Cares Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,309
    There are 3 theories among Chrisitians, atheists, and "agnostics".

    1. The people of God created a tower that ticked off God, and he gave a lesson in humility and scattered the humans by making them all speak different languages.
    2. Environmental changes caused modifications to linguistics as new areas were settled or separated.
    3. Cognitive "drift" changes due to social environment.

    There is no proof that any of these theories are fact.

    It is interesting to think about this dilemma. What is common to these theories is that there is some sort of rift that separated people. From an evolutionary context, groups of our parent species that would become humans were separated somehow, and each developed their own language. But, this doesn't explain why many languages are so different, but so much the same (as if the language itself evolved).

    What do you think?
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. gmilam Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,003
    Languages do evolve. One day something is groovy, the next day it's tubular. Before you know it, it's the bomb.

    And wasn't it Mark Twain that said the Americans and the British were separated by a common language? (The Atlantic does count as some sort of rift, doesn't it?)
     
    sculptor likes this.
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    53,205
    Why not?
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,224
    A more interesting question is, how did we learn to speak? The written word is about 5k years ago, speech came first we assume. This is all we know about human civilisation, even humanity, or whatever passes for humanity. The original question is answered quite well, by the Tower of Babel myth, even if it is metaphorically thought of.
     
  8. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,441
    as/per Aechaeology
    Recently, as per the location of the hyoid bone, archaeologists concluded that the Neanderthals communicated with the use of complex language.
    More recently, the same claim has extended to heidelbergensis via the FOXP2 sequence.

    Generations of linguists have been seeking "the mother language". And still, the search goes on.
    One thing seems fairly certain, and that is that when indigenous people are displaced the one thing that remains is place names.
    Often, the sounds of these place names are somewhat uncomfortable for the speakers of the current language, so they are modified to suit the new language.
    And, then, a new wave of immigration displaces the second inhabitants, and so on---until, we cannot be certain of the language of the original inhabitants.

    Including all of our ancient ancestral sub-species: Did we ever have a common language?
     
  9. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,224
    Some evidence suggests that all humans originated from one place, so if Neanderthals(who we replaced) could talk, even a basic language, which the evidence now suggests, then I would stick my neck out that the first humans could talk. So, with this information it makes sense that we all started out with the same language, albeit basic maybe, and like technology it became more complex, and resulted in writing.
     
  10. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,441
    It seems that by the time of neanderthals the one place origin was long gone. Not all humans have neanderthal dna, nor denisovan dna, and those who do do not all have the same parts of neanderthal nor denisovan dna, eg while most non african humans have 2-6% neanderthal dna, all together almost 20% of the neanderthal genome is represented in modern humans.
    Extrapolating to origins, we would then have to seek a common ancestor to all current humans, and that may well take us back beyond neanderthals, denisovans, and heidelbergensis-----------------to what? or whom? do we then look for language in erectus? or ergaster?
     
  11. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,224
    This is an interesting article: https://www.nature.com/news/1998/001207/full/news001207-8.html which would shed some light on why languages diverged like they have. It's like a full circle. I think one day we will all speak the same language once again.
     
  12. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,441
    Ok your linked seems to only focus on mt dna--the female line--
    It may well be that we all share some of the aforementioned dna, but Neanderthals and Denisovans and Heidelbergensis were extant out of africa for hundreds of thousands of years before the times mentioned in the article. Assuming that they all had complex languages, then would you postulate that the languages of the more recent migrants would have completely replaced these earlier languages?
     
  13. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,224
    The written word starts off in Africa/Asia, and spreads out, roughly 5k years ago. Do you think this provides a clue to whether or not we all spoke the same language 5k years ago, then dispersed and created our own languages/writings? Old Chinese appeared roughly 3.4k ago, a lot later than 5k ago.

    The first trade routes appeared around the time of the first writing discovered, which might give us some clues. Just because we looked similar 100k ago, it doesn't mean we could talk anything but basic, maybe not even that. We just don't know.

    It seems to me that a lot of things happened at the same time 5k years ago, the question is why did it? and how?

    Think about computer languages. It started off binary, 0s and 1s, it's developed into drag and drop almost now, within 40 years. Computers are still binary based they just evolved by our intelligence basically. Basic is a universal language if you think about it.
     
  14. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,572
    They were written down for the first time 5k years ago. There's no reason to think things only started to happen when they were written down.
     
  15. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,224
    I didn't say there was.
     
  16. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,572
    Since you keep mentioning 5k years ago, you sound like a young-earther. If you're not, good.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  17. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,224
    There is an element of truth in every myth, something major happened around 5k years ago, something that maybe took 100sk years to get to, but we don't know. Technologies life cycle is similar, it started off basic and snow balled from say Babbage to now, intelligence behind it, easy to prove. Did something supernatural happen 5k years ago(we can't prove the supernatural now, so why think it exists?)? or did a small tribe in Africa unleash the power of their imagination and learnt to talk(this could of been homo erectus, but like the supernatural, no proof)? As soon as we wrote we evolved at an astonishing rate either way, that is a fact; and like running, you need to learn to walk(talk) first.
     
  18. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,224
    Just checked... the first binary computer was built by Konrad Zuse from 1935 to 1936, it seems. For anyone interested.
     
  19. Michael 345 Bali 1 week here 2 to go Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,529
    The binary abacus is used to explain how computers manipulate numbers. The abacus shows how numbers, letters, and signs can be stored in abinary system on a computer, or via ASCII. The device consists of a series of beads on parallel wires arranged in three separate rows.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abacus

    The exact origin of the abacus is still unknown

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    davewhite04 likes this.
  20. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,224
    That is amazing, and at the same time takes away the light that was shed on the subject. Maybe we all know nothing!

    EDIT: Binary code is electronic based. and was invented later. Basically we know for a fact men invented it!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_code
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
  21. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    so language never changes ?
     
  22. Michael 345 Bali 1 week here 2 to go Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,529
    Binary systems predating Leibniz also existed in the ancient world. The aforementioned I Ching that Leibniz encountered dates from the 9th century BC in China.[6] The binary system of the I Ching, a text for divination, is based on the duality of yin and yang.[7]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_code

    AMAZING - They had electronic based Binary Code in the 9th century BC in China

    Learn something every day

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  23. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,224
    Can of worms comes to mind.

    Basically we learnt to talk and we've been creating more and more complex languages ever since. Still, did it all originate from one place, we don't know.
     

Share This Page